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Rbn3

Captain Patrick Gregg, M.D. in Shiloh Context

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy

My list of top detectives heretofore had only included Bonney and Pinkerton. I have added Ozzy to my hall of fame.

Maria L. Van Frank Bonney, Edward Bonney's wife, died in El Paso, Illinois, about 25 miles due east of Peoria, on 1 Dec 1886.[1] The Bonneys' daughter Martha was one of three wives of W. K. Hoagland, a prominent banker. Miss Jessamine Hoagland sold the Banditti manuscripts in the 1940's. Miss Hoagland was a successful bank advertising executive at the National Bank of Chicago.[2]

I have not yet identified where Miss Hoagland fits in the Bonney family tree – she may be a Hoagland daughter by one of his other wives (which would not make her a Bonney granddaughter). However, the provenance of the Bonney manuscripts at IU is impeccable. Randall and Howes were giants in the ever-diminishing world of bibliophiles.

From the 1963 edition of Banditti:

The manuscript drafts of The Banditti of the Prairies turned up in Chicago sometime in the 1940's in the possession of a Miss Jessamine Hoagland, who claimed to be Bonney's granddaughter. She sold them to W. J. Holliday of Indianapolis, who, in turn, deposited the manuscript with Wright Howes.[3] Howes sold them to David Randall of Scribner's Book Store.[4] [David Anton Randall (5 April 1905 – 25 May 1975) was an American book dealer, librarian and bibliographic scholar. He was head of Scribner's rare book department from 1935 to 1956, librarian of the Lilly Library and Professor of Bibliography at Indiana University. Randall was responsible for the sale of two copies of the Gutenberg Bible. As a practitioner of bibliology with a bibliophiliac addiction, a raconteur of history of books, and an avid collector, he developed a keen appreciation for books as physical objects—including the tasks of collecting, cataloging, finding and preserving them.], and from there they went to the Indiana University Library. Furthermore, there is a strong family tradition which holds that Bonney was, indeed, the author. Mrs. Gus Ramage, Waxahachie, Texas, whose great-great uncle was Bonney, is among those relatives. The only other reference I have to other writings by Bonney is a letter to the editor of the Illinois journal which was reprinted in the Chicago Weekly Journal of January 19, 1846.

 Rbn3

p.s. I have not yet definitively identified the “Eliza Bonney” (23 Oct 1832-11 Apr 1839), the only other Bonney buried in the Bonneyville Cemetery. She certainly could have been Edward's daughter. But Edward’s older brothers Oliver and Amsa lived in Illinois in the same era and may have also been in Bonneyville in the 1830’s. Amsa was elected to the Second Quorum of 75, making him a Mormon Priest at Nauvoo. Edward Bonney’s role and rapid ascension in the Mormon militia may have involved a bit of nepotism. Oliver was a physician who lived for a time in Prospect Park (now Glen Ellyn/Bloomingdale).

 

[3] Wright Howes (1882-1978), ably assisted by his wife and business partner, Zoe Howes (1887-1977), operated an antiquarian book business in Chicago specializing in rare and collectible Americana for 45 years, from 1925 to 1970. Howes rose to the very top of his field, becoming known nationally and internationally as one of the foremost dealers in antiquarian Americana during a time considered by some to have been the golden age of rare book collecting in this country. Nevertheless, if Wright Howes is remembered at all today, it is likely to be as the compiler of U.S.IANA. www.caxtonclub.org/reading/2012/apr12.pdf

[4] David Anton Randall (5 April 1905 – 25 May 1975) was an American book dealer, librarian and bibliographic scholar. He was head of Scribner's rare book department from 1935 to 1956, librarian of the Lilly Library and Professor of Bibliography at Indiana University. Randall was responsible for the sale of two copies of the Gutenberg Bible.[1][2] As a practitioner of bibliology with a bibliophiliac addiction, a raconteur of history of books, and an avid collector, he developed a keen appreciation for books as physical objects—including the tasks of collecting, cataloging, finding and preserving them. Wiki

 

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Excellent work in tracking members of the Bonney family, and their links to Indiana and the Edward Bonney manuscript. William Bonney (son of Edward and Maria) and the children of William Bonney all appear to have a connection to Peoria, Illinois:  http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=81902556

As regards Captain Patrick Gregg and his return to confinement in the South, he would have disembarked at City Point, Virginia under flag of truce (taken into custody and placed under guard); travelled to Petersburg by wagon; train to Richmond -- accompanied by his guards and "luggage" -- for in-processing to the Confederate Prison system at Libby Prison (the officers at Libby were aware that senior Federal officers captured at Shiloh were no longer at Selma, Alabama), so Captain Gregg was sent south by train, and probably made four changes of train before reaching Atlanta, where a final change was made to the Georgia Railroad and 100 miles by rail east to Madison (where Captain P. Gregg is recorded as having arrived on July 14th 1862.) The whole trip, from City Point to Madison Georgia, would have required five or six days; Patrick Gregg would have to have begun his journey from City Point no later than July 8 or 9.

In A Perfect Picture of Hell, page 91, Lieutenant Gift, 12th Iowa, Co.K records that "Captain Gregg brought us money." On page 145, Captain Van Duzee recalls that "he brought gold and greenbacks, and much-needed clothing." And on pages 113- 114 Captain John Stibbs, 12th Iowa, Co.D provides the most detailed description of "old Captain Gregg's arrival at Madison Prison. He brought us one-months pay for each officer named on the list [of officers to be exchanged.] And an hour after he arrived, a couple boxes of clothing were delivered." There were over fifty names on the list: two lieutenants, 38 captains, three majors, five lieutenant-colonels, four colonels, and one brigadier general. The total amount of money entrusted to Captain Gregg (which he carried in a bag, inside a satchel) began as slightly more than $2500 (but Captain Stibbs records that forty percent -- about $1000 -- was invested in clothing before Gregg departed Washington, D.C.

At least two boxes of clothing (to replace the rags many men were wearing in July 1862) and a bag full of gold and greenbacks, to the amount of $1500... not the sort of "luggage" that one man could manage, on his own. Which is why I offer the following suggestion: What better way to travel south, than in company with the President of the United States?

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030313/1862-07-10/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1862&sort=date&date2=1862&words=Ariel&sequence=0&lccn=&index=7&state=New+York&rows=20&ortext=&proxtext=Ariel&year=&phrasetext=&andtext=&proxValue=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=8  New York Herald for July 10th 1862, page 1, column 1 "From Fortress Monroe, July 8"

In the above article (and many similar articles of the same date) is this: "The President arrived [at Harrison's Landing] on the steamer Ariel, accompanied by several officers, including (it is believed) among the latter, General Halleck."

Gregg.jpg        Halleck.jpg  [They look similar to me... ]

[Above images from find-a-grave "acousintoo" (Dr.Gregg); and General Halleck from wikipedia commons.]

Ozzy

 

References:  A Perfect Picture of Hell (Genoways & Genoways, ed.) University of Iowa, 2001.

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi/http%22//fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=168446947  Dr. Patrick Gregg at find-a-grave

http://www.csa-railroads.com/  Railroads of the Confederacy

http://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/military-pay  civil war military pay (monthly)

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030313/1862-06-10/ed-1/seq-10/  New York Herald of June 10th 1862 page 10, column 4 "List of Federal Officers captured at Shiloh to be Exchanged"

 

 

 

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Rbn3    96

That picture of PG was in the RI Argus of  29 Oct 1892 - "Dr. Gregg gone."

I have only found one photo of Gregg - about 1 inch in size as part of large montage of Old Settlers Society of Rock Island (Gregg was the first President). The original is in the Rock Island County Historical Museum in Moline.

So, Agent Maxwell Smart (AKA Ozzie - note the very clever reversed double entendre) here is a case. The last picture below was taken by a famous RI CW photographer who was a tenant in Dr. Gregg's building on the river. 1) Who is the lady? 2) Who was the famous Civil War photographer who took it? Who were the most famous subjects of this famous photographer? Hint for library buffs: the photo collection is housed at the Beinecke Rare Book & Manuscript Library. 

 

Bonus question: The RI PD needs help identifying who ripped off half Zach Taylor's face. The guy behind Zach's  right shoulder is a person of interest since he married Zach's daughter against Zach's wishes.

2017-07-07 09.02.05.jpg

goodyear mural with Gregg.jpg

Patrick Gregg.jpg

Argus Obit.JPG

Gregg Old Settlers.jpg

Gregg old settlers 1.JPG

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

The images you posted above are the only CDVs and sketches of Patrick Gregg (and his wife, Sarah) I have run across (although I believe the Gregg Family, as supposed keepers of the Gregg Family Papers -- and possibly Rock Island Arsenal Library/Museum -- would possess images not generally available.)

In response to your queries, here are my answers:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Gayford&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=162411068&  [better known as Gayford & Speidel ]

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Ke74Q57UusAC&pg=PR22&lpg=PR22&dq=black+civil+war+soldiers+gayford+and+speidel&source=bl&ots=G_a4-9_kXg&sig=CrQAoPdBkW0W7IoP9a5pzFxrHYw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVypPBlpnVAhVElJQKHfyGDX8Q6AEIWDAR#v=onepage&q=gayford&f=false   Undoubtedly known for images of U.S. Colored Troops recorded during the Civil War, are Gayford & Speidel  

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=UNipzykMBEIC&pg=PA468&lpg=PA468&dq=photographer+davenport+civil+war&source=bl&ots=UXIMDeqyyE&sig=opYHNuk9SyhOKgkEuNyhwpPN_4o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ76Tz_ZjVAhWJNpQKHQDJAhQQ6AEIIjAA#v=snippet&q=Davenport&f=false  Pioneer Photographers contains the names and biographies of over twenty photographers who worked in Davenport (and Rock Island) in the years prior to, and during, the Civil War. Morse & Egbert, O. Burdick, D.J. Gue, P.A. Olmstead and John Schueler are arguably the most prolific; Webb & Easterly captured images of John and Aaron Long and Granville Young (the murderers of Colonel George Davenport.)

Gayford.jpg   [Unknown woman]. Photograph taken by Gayford & Speidel of Rock Island.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Knox_Taylor  A missing link (from everyone's favourite, wikipedia).

Cheers

Ozzy

 

N.B.  To complete the connection to the photographic studio in 1860s Rock Island, here is an ad found bottom right corner of page 2 in many 1862 editions of The Argus:  

Gayford & Speidel ad.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Was trying to track down Edward Bonney's obituary in Chicago papers:

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84031490/1864-02-07/ed-1/seq-4/  Chicago Daily Tribune, Feb 7th 1864, page 4

His last name is mispelled "Bonny," but details are otherwise correct (Column 6, near bottom, titled "Died.")

Ozzy

 

N.B.  Oh, and here's the information given to tourists who visit Old Bonneyville and its mill:

http://littleindiana.com/2017/04/bonneyville-mill/  Bonneyville by Jessica Nunemaker

Some excellent details about why the town "failed" and local history IRT Edward Bonney... good photos of mill.

 

Colonel Davenport Murder.  Here is another take on the murder and aftermath, to be found in Celtic Cousins (and makes extensive use of Davenport Gazette records.) Dr. Gregg and Edward Bonney mentioned frequently.

http://www.celticcousins.net/scott/coldavmurder1845.htm

 

 

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy

 As usual, you have proven yourself an expert sleuth.

Take a close look at the montage photo above "unknown woman" - Does not "unknown" strikingly resemble a younger Sarah Wheelock Gregg? 

Rbn3 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

To be honest, I thought I saw that resemblance (Sarah Gregg) but I also "saw" resemblance to a younger Annie Wittenmyer; but when I attempted searches using those names, the CDV by Gayford & Speidel did not return as a hit. I still see a resemblance of Dr. Gregg to Halleck (especially if all that was provided was a verbal description or written explanation of "what General Halleck looked like," without an accompanying photograph.) So I can understand how reporters at Harrison's Landing "thought" they saw Henry Halleck... even though he was still in Corinth, at the time.

Here is another resource, with a single page that is interesting: Reports to the General Assembly of Illinois: 1847 [page 27 (43) with itemized list of payments made to Gregg and Bonney and others for their work in bringing the killers of Colonel Davenport to justice.]  https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Zu9AAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=davenport+murder+Bonney+illinois&source=bl&ots=KBWECvoLwZ&sig=JXV-ZDcaDUF_6Wsh0HGHDudnuHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0zrrSrprVAhVKHZQKHWwZAw4Q6AEIMjAD#v=onepage&q=davenport murder Bonney illinois&f=false

Cheers

Ozzy

 

 

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy

Gregg and Bonney apparently became friends...I hope I can get that letter from the Bonney manuscript! Those rewards were big money in 1846.

I agree that Gregg could have been misidentified as Halleck. The sketch of Gregg gives him a rounder face than the R.I.C.H.S. image depcits. Gregg would likely have been wearing a captain's uniform.

Annie Wittenmeyer is a possibility, as she fits in time and place. Gaylord, et al had a studio in Davenport also.

Mrs. O. Amigh addressed a letter to Wittenmyer from a hospital in Quincy, Illinois, complaining fiercely about the surgeon-in-charge. "Now Mrs. W," she wrote, "do what you can for us towards removing said Doctor ... and the 3d Iowa will bless you forever .... " From: Leonard, E D: Yankee Women. New York, 1994. p 59. Mrs. O. M. Amigh to Annie Wittenmyer, Sept. 1, 1861, War Correspondence of Annie Wittenmyer, 1861-1865, Box 1, Folder 2, Iowa State Historical Library, Des Moines.

Ophelia Amigh is another of my never ending projects.

The Chicago Tribune page with the Bonney death notice (Chicago Daily Tribune., February 07, 1864, Image 4) that you uncovered has two other items that are fascinating to me.

First is the article about the Ellsworth Zouaves and their trip from RI to NY with 60 Rebel prisoners who had "enlisted" in the U.S. Navy. Ellsworth, by then dead for about 4 years, had drilled the Elgin, Illinois, unit formed by Col. Lynch of the 58th. This must have "rubbed off" on Lt. John Gregg, Patrick Gregg's Company drill master.

Second is the article exactly below the first in the same column: "Erring Women's Refuge." This institution recruited Ophelia to Chicago about a decade later as its matron.

Both Amigh and Wittenmyer separated from their husbands, though Wittenmyer never publicly corrected the story that she was a widow. Oscar Amigh of 3rd Iowa was wounded at Shiloh. 

Rbn3

 

ps: I mean no disrespect to the memory of Annie Wittenmyer. In fact, historians often described her as a wealthy widow with a fortune to spend on her causes. This misconception tends to minimize her accomplishments. Annie was the second wife of William who basically was bankrupt in the 1850's and was not paying taxes on their Keokuk home. Annie financed her causes by the force of her arguments and personality. She collected enough salary to support herself. William died in 1876. Baker, Thomas R. The Sacred Cause of Union : Iowa in the Civil War. Iowa and the Midwest Experience. Iowa City: University of Iowa Press, 2016.p 20-21, 77

1860's portrait.JPG

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Rbn3    96

Back to the unknown woman.

If the revenue stamp was placed on the CDV at the time of its capture and development, the picture dates to between 1 August 1864 and 1 August 1866. Sarah Wheelock Gregg would have been about 45 year old then. Annie Wittenmyer was 8 years younger. The dates define the period that the revenue stamps were required on photographs. Of course the image may be a reprint from an older negative. She was in Davenport in the right time frame. And thousands of other women are candidates.

But Wittenmyer was relatively famous and many images of her survive. 

Who has the Gayford negatives, or were they destroyed for the silver? Or by fire? Certainly they were once in sleeves and labelled.

picture tax.JPG

Wittenmyer speaks.JPG

Iowa Soldiers Orphan Home Davenport 1863 1.JPG

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Ozzy    424

Just another one... 

When first exposed to the image of the "unknown woman in the black dress," I believed determining her identity would be comparatively easy (and I still feel that given enough time and effort, her name will be revealed.)

But it reminds me, at the same time, of the thousands of Civil War images we have all run across, with either no label; or mislabeled; or recorded as "CDV of soldier in Zouave uniform." With enough time and energy, most of those "unknown soldiers" could be identified, making use of distinctive uniform items, facial features, Photographer's trademark, common location, and approximate date of capture of image. Until the technology is developed, allowing this "identification process" to be "fast and effective," the thousands of unidentified soldiers remain, staring out from the past; each one almost daring you to figure out who they are, and the interesting story each one has to tell.

But in the meantime, each unidentified image remains as "just another one."

Ozzy

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Of course, in tracking the Life of Patrick Gregg, his service with 23rd Illinois cannot be ignored (for it is this affiliation that most likely led to assignment at Rock Island Arsenal as Post Surgeon.)

http://civilwar.illinoisgenweb.org/history/023.html  [scroll down to entry of October 10th 1864.]

And here is record of his muster in with 23rd Illinois Infantry in December 1862 (only two months following release from Madison Prison, Georgia.)

http://civilwar.illinoisgenweb.org/fs/023-fs.html  [Field & Staff record, Surgeon 15 DEC; muster in 22 DEC 1862.]

The 23rd Illinois, known as the "Irish Brigade" at time of organization in Chicago, was formally mustered into Federal service in June 1861, and was with Peabody and Mulligan during the disaster at Lexington Missouri in September 1861. For all practical purposes, the 23rd Illinois "ceased to exist" following its surrender at Lexington; but through the efforts of Colonel Mulligan, the regiment was "re-constituted" ...and Patrick Gregg joined that organization in December 1862 and served the next two years in the Eastern Theatre, mostly in Northern Virginia; and in the Shenandoah Valley.

[And you thought the 69th New York was the only "Irish Brigade" during the Civil War... ]

 Ozzy

 

Reference:  http://irishamericancivilwar.com/resources/regimental-nativity/23rd-illinois-infantry/  Irish in the Civil War

http://weezy.info/pdf/GrandmaMePart3Chptr6.pdf   PVT Edward Higginson, 23rd Illinois, Co.A

Irish brigade flag.jpg  Flag of the 23rd Illinois Infantry [from Don Troiani]

 

N.B.   And here is another item that made the 23rd Illinois special:

http://antiquesandguns.com/rolfehenry.html   Typical rifle used by 23rd Illinois Infantry.

 

 

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

In regard to the "unknown woman CDV" attributed to Gayford & Speidel... your guess was closer than mine:

Mary Gregg.jpg  [Same woman, but CDV taken in Binghamton, New York by E.S. Woodbridge about 1864.]

[Above "Unknown woman CDV" found at pinterest via Google Images.] And found by searching for "Mary Gregg Rock Island 1864" on Google. Since the original image more closely resembled Sarah Gregg, it seemed logical to check for daughters of Patrick and Sarah. But, what about Binghamton?

In October 1862 -- on the 24th -- Mary Gregg married Albert Charles Dart, Rock Island resident originally from Broome County, New York [Binghamton is in Broome County] so my best guess is the newlyweds journeyed to Albert Dart's "home town" and visited family back East.

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi/http%22//fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=168431947  A.C. Dart at find-a-grave, with significant information in bio.

Finding this woman's identity also solves another mystery: in a presentation attended by General Prentiss, Colonel Lynch and Captain Gregg in Chicago, following their release from captivity, Patrick Gregg apologized for "having to rush off and catch a train, because he had important family business in Rock Island."  Don't know if Dr. Gregg arrived in time for the wedding, but it would appear that was his intention.

Another item of interest was revealed while searching for evidence IRT Mary Gregg:

http://shimercollege.wikia.com/wiki/Mary_Gregg   Mary Gregg, alumnus of Shimer College. In February 1857, Dr. Patrick Gregg caught wind of "unwanted religious education being introduced to his daughter, Mary" and wrote the Heads of the College, expressing his displeasure [transcript of letter of Feb 14th included.]

Find one lead, find another...

Ozzy

 

N.B.  See Hank's SDG post of August 5th 2016 in Prentiss Speaks about Shiloh in 1862 -- Eyewitness Accounts. The "Serenade" involving Prentiss, Lynch and Gregg took place in Chicago on October 21st 1862... which should have given Patrick Gregg time to get to Rock Island and "give his daughter away" on the 24th. Probably a newspaper in existence that records the story...

 

 

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy

 As usual, you have proven yourself yet again to be an expert sleuth. Frances Wood married Dr. Henry Shimer. Her brother, Talmadge Benjamin Wood, was an early Oregonian of multiple talents, joining the Whitmans. He escaped the Whitman Massacre only to be murdered himself while an Argonaut. "Murderer's Bar" on the American River is so named because it is the site his violent demise. Patrick Gregg left Angelica, New York, where he had been the physician to the County Alms House, about the same time as the Whitman's were married there.

Mary Gregg died young.

Caroline Warner Gregg never married and was a dynamo for many Rock Island charitable and Presbyterian Church causes. She lived until 1938. 

Thanks

Rbn3 

C W Gregg probably 'Carrie' Caroline Warner Gregg 1854-1938.JPG

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Ozzy    424

The Bridge on the River Kwai is a 1957 film featuring William Holden, during which Holden, who has escaped from a "Hell on Earth" POW Camp in the jungles of Thailand, is "requested" to return to that camp on an important mission. To those who have seen it, especially in America, it first appears as "result of someone's too free use of creative license." After all, there were Americans taken prisoner in the Philippines, and on Guam... but Thailand? Included is mention of the sinking of USS Houston, and British prisoners building a railroad for the Japanese, and a death rate exceeding one prisoner per day... Why would anyone return to that?

And the truth: no one did. The sinking of the Houston was real; and the employment of tens of thousands of British, Australian and Thai prisoners to build a railroad through the jungle was real; and it is believed that of the 180,000 men "put to work" in laying 250 miles of track from Thailand to Burma, over half of them did not survive the experience. So Bridge on the River Kwai, with its former prisoner returned on "special duty," is just a story.

But, this is what makes Patrick Gregg's experience incredible: he did withstand months of incarceration on half-rations; he did witness needless deaths; and he did "escape" from this awful situation (and witnessed the opportunity others took to avoid return to "Hell on Earth"), but opted to go back. (William Holden's character in the film is coerced into going back.) And therein lies Dr. Gregg's claim to greatness. His story is real.

Just an observation...

Ozzy

 

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy,

Except for the fact that now I cannot get the tune out of my head, I am grateful for your reminder about The Bridge on the River Kwai.

Patrick Gregg's father fought under Cornwallis in 1798 in an Irish Civil war. About 20 years later John Gregg was the victim of an assassination attempt in the "wild west" of County Mayo, Ireland. Patrick Gregg's letter to Frances Wood is explained by his disdain for sectarianism. His energetic cooperation with Bonney is explained by his horror of lawlessness.

Rbn3 

 

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Was rummaging around, attempting different ways of searching for "Patrick Gregg," and ran across this:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=77614008   Surgeon of 23rd Illinois, W. D. Wyner (or Winer)

Here is his entry on 23rd Illinois roster:  http://civilwar.illinoisgenweb.org/fs/023-fs.html  Surgeon Wyner

The find-a-grave site has a comprehensive bio IRT Dr. Winer (the surgeon Patrick Gregg replaced.)

Also, ran across this copy of General Prentiss's speech at Bryan Hall, Chicago, on file Library of Congress:

http://www.loc.gov/resource/lprbscsm.scsm0496/?st=text  "Life in Southern Dungeons."  Of interest, not only because it is a copy of Benjamin Prentiss's speech of October 21st 1862; but also because of the "filing mistake" made by LOC (under "subject headings" Dr. Gregg is recorded as "Gregg, John ( 1828- 1864 )." Not only is the name wrong... but this is not even Patrick's son, John W. Gregg (who many still believe is the "Dr. Gregg" sent away north to convince President Lincoln to exchange the prisoners.) Anyway, John Gregg is another possible way of searching for sites IRT Patrick Gregg (although, as yet, I have only retrieved sites already accessed via Patrick Gregg.)

Just some bits and pieces...

Ozzy

 

N.B.   Here is an example, found at what should be a reputable site, listing "John W. Gregg" as one of the commissioners sent north from Selma Alabama (scroll down to bottom of third paragraph): http://www.facebook.com/ShilohNMP/posts/879594192130568

 

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Will get into the pre-American Gregg, via your link. I imagine the Irish genealogical records are impressively complete (similar to Scottish records.)

Another interesting connection to consider investigating: Benjamin Prentiss and William F. Lynch. It is readily apparent that General Prentiss was impressed with Patrick Gregg (to the point of including Dr. Gregg at the Bryan Hall "serenade" of October 21st.) What about 23-year old Colonel Lynch? There must be more to his story... and why Patrick and John Gregg ended up in his regiment, as opposed 23rd Illinois Infantry.

A couple of links...

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=c9OJCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT63&lpg=PT63&dq=colonel+Lynch+58th+illinois&source=bl&ots=Zp_PU7Zl6A&sig=BmDAdwS3Sz-tBI0Rpv6EzK-r4Yg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLzuuitL7VAhVJl5QKHfqNBZUQ6AEINzAD#v=onepage&q=colonel Lynch 58th illinois&f=false  Notre Dame and the Civil War, by James M. Schmidt

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=57203840  Colonel Lynch at find-a-grave

All the best

Ozzy

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy

Actually Ireland's records before 1850 were generally destroyed in the Dublin  Four Courts Fire during the "Rising" of 1922.

Lynch was a Fenian, as was Sweeney. But Lynch died young from the after effects of a gun shot wound to the tibia suffered at Yellow Bayou in 1864. Dr. Henry Crawford (another Scots-Irish Physician) was the 58th's Surgeon and an excellent surgeon. He advised amputation. Lynch told his Adjutant to shoot Crawford (an Ulster Protestant) if he tried. Lynch later admitted that he should have let Crawford perform the operation. Crawford was very experienced and a below the knee amputation was a lower (but still high) risk procedure. Survivors could be fitted with a prosthesis and some recovered nearly full function. Lynch was an invalid and never fully recovered.Crawford and Lynch are buried in the same cemetery in Elgin, Illinois. Lynch was an early associate of Ellsworth and formed a drill unit of Fighting Irish at Notre Dame in 1859 and had himself drilled under Ellsworth in Elgin.

Gregg intended to join his company with Mulligans 23rd originally, but the timing and logistics did not work out. John W. was a 90 day volunteer in Co. D of the 12th Illinois who transferred to Co K of the 58th in December 1861. Lynch was a beloved figure by many but was from Elgin on the Galena RR line. Gregg and he did not maintain a relationship after the war as far as I can tell. Of course, Lynch was Catholic and Gregg was a Protestant of sorts. Gregg was Baptized in the Anglican Church of Ireland, though his children were raised as Presbyterians with his support. Gregg's father and Lynch's grandfather Timothy from County Cork ("The Rebel County" and home to the Irish Fenians) were likely on opposite sides in '98 back in Ireland.

Col. Lynch and I went to the same high school (Elgin Academy). I have Schmidt's book on my desk. My favorite college football team is who ever is playing Notre Dame. The world remains complicated.

Rbn3

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Ozzy    424

Water under the bridge... 

I believe one can drive themselves insane, attempting to make sense of the various clan-hatreds, feuds, attempts "to put old grievances right," and incidents of religious intolerance, that took place "back in the old country;" and I believe many fled their old countries to put those unfathomable grievances firmly in the past, and start fresh. Of course, some grievances and bigotries die harder than others...

In tracing the pedigree of Patrick Gregg, it is important to understand "what sort of background" influenced his development as a man; but it is also obvious that he endeavored to "move past" some of that historical animosity and establish himself as "American," working from as clean a slate as possible. Participation by recent immigrants in "an American war" allowed those new arrivals to accelerate their claim to status as Americans, and gain acceptance in exchange for their sacrifice. And the nature of the Civil War (American) was such that "immigrants" were not blamed in the South for the defeat of the Confederacy; just as "immigrants" were not accorded, by the North, extraordinary credit for success by the Union in that war. The South "all commiserated together," and the North all celebrated together (although USCT may have felt justifiably slighted by their Northern comrades.) But, some grievances and bigotries die harder than others...

My two cents

Ozzy

N.B.  For those curious about some of the "feuds that pre-dated Hatfield and McCoy" here is a link:

http://brandywinebooks.net/?p=4402  The Steel Bonnets by George MacDonald Fraser

First published about 1971, the well-researched book reveals interactions (and friction) of the Lowland Families of Scotland with their neighbours to the south... east... west... and north. Helps in understanding why some families moved back and forth between Scotland and Ireland over many generations, before winding up in America, or Canada, or Australia.

For research of Scottish and Irish records, before 1800, sometimes all that can be done is to "bite the bullet" and make the journey. Individual church records in Scotland (births, deaths, baptisms, weddings) are still maintained by those churches, except where the local church has been disestablished. According to British Law, records of disestablished churches and businesses are required maintained by the local library, an expansion of "Legal Deposit."  (Sometimes those records are scanned onto the internet, but usually not.)

A similar practice is at work in Australia; as for Ireland... unknown, at this time (but Family Bibles often act as sources of these same records, for  Protestant families.)

Just a few ideas, for family history research...

 

 

 

 

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Rbn3    96

Ozzy,

Of course going from the general to the specific back to the general is what historians do. Some even make money at it. Frederick Jackson Turner made it to a Harvard chair from Portage, Wisconsin, by riding his "myths" of sectionalism and his "Frontier Hypothesis." Cherry picking the specifics is the key to "success" as both a "scientist" and a historian. When Friar Gregor Mendel reported data from his experiments with peas, he was either ungodly lucky or he threw out his outliers. Or so it was thought for most of the last century. One of the enduring maxims of the human species is "if you are not cheating, you are not trying."

If John Gregg took his family to America to escape the dangers of the Wild West of Ireland (County Mayo), he was not completely successful. His son Patrick almost immediately set out for America's Wild West. Boone, Crockett, Jackson, Houston, Calhoun, and Gregg were all self-assertive Scots-Irish frontiersmen. The first five became cultural giants of truly mythical proportions. Patrick Gregg clearly was self-assertive. He and General William Lynch may have come from different sides of an old grudge match Irish feud, but they were both Douglas Democrats when the Civil War began. At Bryan Hall in 1862 they both made it clear they had become Lincoln Democrats. Lynch said: "There should be no Republicans, no Democrats. Every man should sacrifice his personal feelings. I was opposed to Abraham Lincoln; I am now opposed to every man who opposes Abraham Lincoln." 

When it came to Confederates, for both Gregg and Lynch it was "grudge on."

Feuds, Irish or otherwise, can be set aside, but they are rarely, if ever, forgotten.

Cheers

Rbn3

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/art-music-and-film/essays/myth-frontier-progress-or-lost-freedom

Sir R A Fisher, one of the statistical giants of the last century, politely accused Mendel of cherry picking fraud and "proved it so" with a "modern" statistical analysis of Fisher's own invention.

FISHER R.A. 1918: The correlation between relatives on the supposition of Mendelian inheritance. Transactions of the Royal Society of Edinburgh 52: 399-433.

A hundred years after Fisher,  statisticians are hard at work cherry picking "proper methods" (i.e., fit the model to the data, not  the data to the model) that "prove" Fisher wrong and Mendel honest:

KALINA J. 2014: Gregor Mendel, his experiments and their statistical evaluation. Acta Musei Moraviae, Scientiae biologicae (Brno) 99(1): 87-99. Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) is now generally acknowledged as the founder of modern genetics. He was among the first to make systematic use of mathematical methods in biology, employing just the simpler rules of probability theory to work out some of the underlying laws of heredity. However, it is less well known that an element of controversy began to attach to his experimental results in the 1930's, largely as a result of the work of the eminent British statistician and biologist R.A. Fisher, who felt that Mendel's results were too close to expected values. New explanations have therefore been sought to avert suspicion that the figures may have been in some way idealised. The work in hand seeks to contribute to resolving the Mendel-Fisher controversy. An alternative statistical model for the design of Mendel's experiments is suggested, which appears to correspond to Mendel's results. At the same time, the proposed model allows a very simple interpretation. http://www.mzm.cz/fileadmin/user_upload/publikace/casopisy/amm_sb_99_1_2014/08kalina.pdf 

Another enduring human maxim: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

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Ozzy    424

Rbn3

Although accepting your points, here are my "amendments" to the above:

  • "Always leave 'em wanting more" -- P.T. Barnum. This is the essence of how I determine a "well-written book" or a "good movie" ...by the fact that I read it (or view it) again. Because I want to.
  • [If you ain't cheatin' ...you ain't a-tryin'] is actually one of my favorite expressions, with applicability to describing war-fighting as opposed to the playing of sport. Sport: where winning within the rules is important. War: where winning is important.
  • There are two secrets to success. The first: "Never reveal everything you know."

Ozzy

 

 

Ozzy

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Rbn3    96

The second: "Never reveal the second."

I am the only person, excepting his brother Abe, to whom Roger revealed the second rule.

Rbn3

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