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Shiloh Discussion Group

Stan Hutson

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Posts posted by Stan Hutson


  1. 3 hours ago, Dick Whitaker said:

    Holy moley, I was not expecting all that!   Much appreciated!

    A simple google search can be more amazing than you realize, that is to say, a simple google books search can be more amazing.  It was good stuff to read, it was stuff that I did not know.  All in the OR's.  I need to just buy the Official Records for Shiloh, I think it is just two books, there is no way I could ever buy the entire series of the ORs!

    • Like 1

  2. So, yes, the Prattville Dragoons and Mathews Rangers were at Shiloh as part of Jenkins' 1st Alabama Cavalry Battalion.  It sounds like Jenkins himself, and the men he had under him, never fired a shot nor saw any action.  Jenkins states that he didn't fire a shot on the 6th, and nothing much to report on the 7th.  Ironic in such a heavy battle, particularly given the fact that the Confederates were outnumbered on the 2nd day, that Jenkins, and potentially other soldiers, never even fired a shot either day, even though some of his men were sent back to the rear to escort prisoners.

    Mathews Rangers must have been on the end of the column when the Texas Rangers attacked at Cavalry field, with the attack being repulsed before the Alabamians even got into the fight, 

    It seems that only a few Confederate cavalry organizations actually functioned at Shiloh as a cohesive unit.  Many cavalry units were farmed out as couriers and etc.  Brewer's Alabama cavalry did charge and fight Birge's Western Sharpshooters in Glover's field at Shiloh (Birge's Sharpshooters aka 14th Missouri Infantry aka 66st Illinois Infantry)

    • Thanks 1

  3. 40 minutes ago, CSuniforms said:

    Awesome image! Where did you find that one! Of course the 14th by Shiloh were in blue jackets-- But a great image. Don did Shiloh, if I remember, because people at that time were asking for something Western. He had a hard time finding how Johnston was dressed at Shiloh-- after much research he came with this rendition. The Arkansas troops, their uniforms are based on research done by myself and Jerry Coats of Gettysburg. Jerry dug out the ordnance and clothing records in the National Archives. Using some photos and flag research we put it all together for this painting. Jerry said his Western stuff just did not sell as well as his Eastern Battlefield paintings and prints. Remember when it was all Gettysburg and Antietam 25 years ago!!! Not so much today, but that was the way it was back then. I will fill in the gaps. I did do the research for 10 Western figures for Don.-- Tom

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47601591/jacob-bowman

    Yeah I remember years ago when his prints were seemingly all Gburg and Antietam.  And I recall that he had a hard time finding good accounts of clothing and etc. for his Shiloh piece, and to his credit he wants his paintings to be authentic, not "what they might have looked like", nor a generic version of Western CS soldiers early war.  I doubt he will do any more Western theater, which is sad, but would love to see some.


  4. 2 hours ago, CSuniforms said:

    Research is continuing-- Found some good information on some of the different Louisiana Regiments. Will share in time, when I get it all together. Tom

     

    Cool Tom, will look forward to seeing it.  It is a crying shame that Troiani only did one Shiloh print.  His work is amazing, but I guess the Western Theater was just not his thing.  Would love to see him doing a painting with his interpretation of the attack of Gladden's men in Spain Field.

    I don't have the Troiani "Men of Arkansas" print, but would love to get it.


  5. On 5/22/2018 at 6:46 PM, Ozzy said:

    Washington Light Artillery of New Orleans, 5th Co.       [image from ACW Toy Soldiers.]

    According to Facebook post of Shiloh NMP dated 21 July 2017, it was Lieutenant Slocomb of the battery who had the Louisiana Washington Artillery turn their blue jackets inside out on the morning of April 6th 1862.

    Same Facebook post records, "Kentucky troops may have fired into Trabue's Louisiana troops (wearing blue jackets on Sunday afternoon.)"

    Again, the Facebook post reports, "Lieutenant A. V. Vetner (CSA) was killed by the 4th Louisiana as he rode past."

    The 4th Louisiana is recorded as "engaged with a Tennessee Regiment" [OR 10 page 489.] Colonel Allen: "A Tennessee regiment in our rear fired on us." [That regiment may have been the 33rd Tennessee -- their report (OR 10 page 435) records "confusion."] SDG topic "Friendly Fire Incident with 4th Louisiana Confederates" of 30 March 2010 records additional details. And SDG topic "Route for Tim's Epic Hike" of 24 SEP 2014 records the scene of "Shiloh's most famous friendly fire incident in vicinity of Lost Field."

    OR 10 pages 422 - 3 Report No.146: Colonel Bell insists, "The 33rd Tennessee fired into us." [More details to be found SDG topic "Attack on Waterhouse's Battery that Succeeded" -- especially posts of 21 AUG 2016 (two posts.)]

    OR 10 page 430 Report No.151 of the 13th Arkansas "observed an officer shot down by Louisiana troops." [This officer may have been Brigadier General SAM Wood, who may have still been wearing the dark-coloured uniform from his days with the 7th Alabama -- see photograph  associated with SDG topic "Wood's Brigade: what artillery battery" by lelliott19 (16 NOV 2016) (the CDV image with five officers posed for camera.)] Also, SAM Wood's report OR 10 page 592.

    Cheers

    Ozzy

     

    References:  http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924077730160;view=1up;seq=533  OR 10 of Rebellion Records

    http://www.acwtoysoldiers.com/Confederate Sets/CSA_ART_LA_WashLtArtNO5thCo.html  ACW Toy Soldiers (image at top of post.)

    http://www.facebook.com/ShilohNMP/posts/1413422985414350   Shiloh NMP post of 21 July 2017.

     

     

    Ozzy made mention of the 7th Alabama Infantry.  1st Lt. John Dickinson of the 7th Alabama Infantry (57 years old, photo probably taken in or near Pensacola).  He is dressed like a Federal officer to the T, blue frock coat and all.

    1st Lt. John Dickinson, 7th Alabama Infantry, 57 years old, Elisha's father.jpg

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  6. As far as blue uniforms on CS troops.  Many people in the SDG know Keith Willingham.  He asked me once if i had ever found any images of soldiers, particularly officers, of the 16th Alabama Infantry wearing blue uniforms.  It was a point of research interest for Keith, but not of mine, so I am not sure where the account came from that some 16th officers wore blue uniforms (I don't doubt the report, just need to ask Keith for the reference, would love to see it).  But, I happened upon this image of 2nd Lt. Goodloe Pride, Company A, 16th Alabama Infantry not too long ago.  

    It sure looks like to me he is wearing a blue frock coat, or a heavily bluish gray.  Enough so that either way, if that was being worn, it could be mistaken for a Federal jacket from a distance.  

    Jr. 2nd Lt. Goodloe Pride, Company A, 16th Alabama Infantry, WIA Jonesboro.jpg

    • Like 2

  7. I would agree, I would say either his accent OR the possibility of being seen by someone who knew him and they identified him.  I guess he "could" have come clean and said who he was, to some type of CS authorities, for whatever reason (may have been questioned?)  But, then again, how many of the men captured at the Hornets Nest would have been interrogated by CS authorities?  

    • Like 1

  8. On 5/19/2018 at 8:58 AM, CSuniforms said:

    Stan!!! Wahoo!!! That was awesome. I don't know if everyone on the Forum has seen that, but it is a great find for uniform researchers. For the record, the Don Troiani painting of Johnston at Shiloh with the Arkansawyer's, I helped with the research on that one. I have done 12 or 13 research projects for Don that ended up as paintings in his book. I have also done research for many Civil War authors and other painters like Don. 

    As to Ozzy's comments. For the Confederates they were under the Commutation System for clothing. A sum of $25.00 later raised, was given to the soldiers by the CS Government to help pay for clothing for service or a uniform. Some confusion reigned in the opening weeks of the Civil War when three sets of unofficial regulations for CS uniforms appeared in the papers. Several States, [Republics] authored their own Regulations for their "State Army," which also led to a sea of different cuts in uniforms and colors. By the late summer of 1861 all this finery and fluff was gone. Now it was getting cold and the soldiers needed warm clothing. The CS Government did not have the resources to produce 200,000 new uniforms for its Forces. Instead they opted for an "Appeal"-- the "Great Appeal" for warm winter clothing by donation by its citizens. And it worked. All manner of clothing was sent out to the Camps and Forts for the Confederates. Some of it was uniform in nature, the largest part homespun walnut dyed clothing of the Bush Variety as it was described. So they got their donated clothes! You might get a black pair of pants, a red or white cotton shirt, a civilian blouse or uniform jacket or frock as part of the big pile of clothing placed in front of you. Wool pants cost you more than cotton, and a uniform jacket more than a civilian blouse, and it came out of your commutation money$$$. Or ---if you were lucky Mom or your Wife sent out some new clothes just for you. From that you had for Spring, 1862, descriptions of "no-two dressed alike," or "half-civilian half military," when looking at a Confederate Regiment or Brigade on parade. The result of the Commutation System and the Great Appeal for donated clothing for the winter of 1861-1862. This is the exact description we get of Confederates, how they appeared at Shiloh. Each Confederate Company and Regiment had their own story as to how they were dressed at different times during the War. The Louisiana Troops, the State Militia Troops that came with Bragg to fight were much better uniformed than those from Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama.

    Tom Arliskas

    Tom, 

    I only wish Troiani would have done more Shiloh prints.  I know he is more heavily into Rev War now, and I don't foresee many Civil War projects from him in the future, that is to say Western Theater stuff.  

    And yes, was neat to see that insanely detailed account of how the J Curry Rifles were armed and outfitted.  They were one of 2 Alabama companies that became part of Blythe's Mississippi Regiment.  No doubt the gear mentioned is what they would have been carrying at Shiloh.


  9. 4 hours ago, CSuniforms said:

    Stan! Of Course I remember you! I am a big follower of yours. I was just browsing through the photos you have on this post and find them wonderful as to uniforms and firearms. The Wisconsin men in the 4 button State Blouses; Unique canteen and haversack straps; their Dresden-Suhl Muskets. The 23rd Missouri in their St. Louis Depot jackets. The Illinois men in their State Jackets. Iowa in the Regulation frock coats and caps! You have it. Not done the Confederates yet. One thing at a time. The one Group mentioned the most often were the troops from Louisiana-- the Crescent Regiment-- and their appearance on the Battlefield of Shiloh. Dressed in blue and marching in perfect step! I am going to cover them in my presentation. Thank You for your support already!

    Tom Arliskas

    Thanks Tom.  Yes, I have worked hard on the images for the Shiloh Discussion Group page, hoping this place can be a kind of repository for them.  I am sure I have amassed the largest online collection of Federal and Confederate soldiers killed, wounded, missing, POW, etc., at the Battle of Shiloh.  

    It seems like for some regiments both North and South at Shiloh we can paint a thorough picture of what they looked like and what they were wearing, but with other units, not so much.  I will help out where I can, and good luck in your endeavors.  Find attached an article describing, literally down to the maker, of the J. Curry Rifles, Company I, who were Alabamians that were serving in Blythe's Mississippi Battalion.  If you save the image to your computer, you can open it up and zoom in to read it.

    Stan

    31296_195493-00021.jpg

    arms and equipment.jpg

    • Like 3

  10. 7 minutes ago, CSuniforms said:

    Hello, My name is Thomas Arliskas. I am the author of the book, Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown, Notes on Confederate uniforms. I have been selected to be one of the Speakers at the Kenosha Civil War Museums annual Fall symposium. This years topic will cover the Battle of Shiloh. I will be sharing the stage with the likes of Professor Tim Smith and Larry J. Daniels. Good Company! My topic will be the material culture and the common soldier who fought there. Will cover the uniforms and the types of weapons used by both sides. I have been doing research type projects for over 40 years on the Civil War and Shiloh was a part of that. I originally started out with studying Illinois in the Civil War and from there Confederate clothing and uniforms. I have started my research for the Fall presentation, and found this site. Lots of information here! So, how important is the study of uniforms and clothing at Shiloh? Some will say none at all, some will say a lot. It has to do with what your interests are. If you just like reading casually about the Civil War; Generals, Campaigns, Battles, Politics, Lincoln, Davis, your focus will not be how the 1st Louisiana or 32nd Indiana were uniformed at Shiloh. Blue and Gray is enough for you. But now--- If your ancestor was in those Regiments, if you are commissioned to do a painting, if you collect memorabilia, or if you own an original Civil War firearm from these Regiments, you are going to want to know how they looked, maybe their Regimental Flag, and what firearms were issued to see if yours matches ordnance records.

    Shiloh carries a mystique all its own. Even the men who fought at Shiloh remember it as a horrible Battle, not a game changer, just another slug fest to contend with and then move on. Island No. 10, got more Press in the papers! Few Books are available covering the Battle itself, as opposed to Gettysburg or Antietam. Yet there are hundreds, thousands of diaries, letters, memoirs, pamphlets, stories about the Battle of Shiloh everywhere ready to be found. 

    I have promised the NPS and the folks at Shiloh Park that when done I will send them what I have found on the Armies at Shiloh, North and South. Their uniforms, clothing, firearms, flags, and comments on all of it. Of course I will cover other aspects of the Battle. Like both Grant and Johnston-- though not in the common soldier category, they certainly had a role to play in the history and outcome. If you do have any information you feel I could use- please let me know-- This is a project in search of knowledge to be compiled for all those interested on just another piece of Civil War History.

    Sincerely,

    Tom Arliskas

    Happy to be a Forum Member.


     

    Hey Tom, Stan Hutson here.  Not sure, but you may remember me from facebook, I posted Confederate images on there, especially Alabama images.  Have been taking a break from FB.

    There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum.  There are a ton of topics and subtopics to scroll through, much like civilwartalk.com.  I have been on this forum a long time, and even I have not gone through all of the older forum topics.

    On this forum I have posted roughly 400 images of soldiers associated with Shiloh, killed or wounded, along with images from Fort Donelson and the Iuka/Corinth Campaign.

    So, welcome to the group.  Many will be willing to assist if they can I am sure!

    Stan

    • Like 1

  11. Bragg's words some ironically contradictory.  He believes that he has done great work in and around Mobile/Pensacola preparing the area for defense and they can't spare him there, yet he could not repeat those same results out west and indeed he believes the west is lost.  

    But, if he was going to go, he was going to take what he considered the "cream of the crop", the 9th Miss, 1st Louisiana, etc., etc. with him.  You have to wonder if he likewise didn't want to leave for this scenario:  If he left and Federals managed to take command of Pensacola and Mobile, that it would reflect badly on Bragg and his ability to organize effective long term defenses.  

    In the letter from Benjamin to Bragg, I noticed something that was still around later in the war.  Fremont is called incompetent.  Later in the war, during Streight's Raid through Alabama, even locals considered that Federal force "incompetent".  It is interesting how throughout the war Southerner's viewed Federal troops as inept.  

     

    • Like 2

  12. On 1/24/2017 at 7:49 PM, asgard636 said:

    Here's one that's inconsistent with what I've been reading online-The flag pictured below is labelled online as the flag of the 154th Tennessee Senior Regiment, captured and recaptured at Shiloh. I don't where this flag is currently displayed.

    It appears to be one of the Henry Cassidy flags ordered from New Orleans by General Beauregard.

    The site confederateflags.org states that BRAGG'S Corps had previously been issued with the 1st order of these flags and fought under them at Shiloh. It FURTHER states that a SECOND order of these flags for Polk's Corps had not yet arrived when the army left Corinth and that POLK'S Corps fought the battle with their Polk battle flags.

    Just trying to zero in as much as I can on flags carried at Shiloh; Does anyone have further info on the "Cassidy" battle flag being carried by any of the units of Polk's Corps?

     

     

    154th.jpg

    I know this is an old post, but wanted to chime in.  I saw where this flag is actually thought to have belonged to a Mississippi regiment.  The flag was captured on 6 April and then recaptured by the 154th Tenn on the 7 April.  Not sure though.  Would love to track down the details of this flag.


  13. 3 hours ago, WI16thJim said:

    Yup. I thought you knew about it so I never mentioned it. Spent many a hour on the fourth floor archive. When Mona visited WI, I was going to take her there, but they had changed the hours and were closed on the Monday when we got there. Fortunately, I'd made my acquaintance with the powers that be and got Mona a private tour in the closed museum.

    The display in the picture is of the cornfield at Antietam. 

    Yeah cool looking Sharpsburg display.  I will be posting all the 16th Wisconsin images related to Shiloh that I found on the site.  Good stuff.  I never knew about it.


  14. On 4/16/2018 at 7:32 PM, Transylvania said:

    Some of us Stalwarts were talking among ourselves during the recent 2018 Anniversary hikes, trying to figure out suggestions for topics for Dr Smith's 2018 Epic Hike.  One suggestion was to follow the route of Trabue's (mostly) Kentucky Brigade (a suggestion not put forth by your Faithful Correspondent), which could be lengthy, if one starts at the initial position on the Bark Road and follows it to its position in Crescent Field, then bushwhacking across Tilghlman Branch, and closing the encirclement of Prentiss et al.  Then to the Indian Mounds, which ended its service on April 6.  It spent the night in the camps of the 6th Iowa and 46th Ohio (McDowell's Brigade of the Fifth Division), clear across the Battlefield.

    Your Faithful Correspondent suggested some sort of an excursion in which the hike would follow the course of the Federal brigades into the fighting on April 6.  The basis of this suggestion is that your Faithful Correspondent does not have a grasp of the location of the Federal camps, with the exception of the Fifth and Sixth Division brigade camps.

    One of the aspects of his recent book which he touts is its treatment of the April 7 actions which is deeper than that of other accounts, so perhaps Dr Smith could put together a hike dealing with the Second Day.  He did discuss Lew Wallace's actions on April 7 in the afternoon installment of last year's Epic Hike. but there's a lot more to cover.

    Does anyone else have any suggestions?

     

    I have never been on any of the "epic hikes", but your 2nd suggestion sounds interesting, that of following some of the other Federal units in to battle aside from those in the front line camps.  There were many units, mainly on the Federal side, that simply didn't march clear across creation in their action at Shiloh.  The only drawback is that if you are retracing the steps of a unit that did not travel far it would make for a short hike and leave everyone with a, well, "now what do we do" scenario when the hike is over.  Good ideas though.  

    • Like 1

  15. Well, I found the following website: https://www.wisvetsmuseum.com/exhibits/permanent-exhibits/

    The Wisconsin Veterans Museum.  Found a bunch of Wisconsin images, soldiers killed and wounded at Shiloh, and at Corinth as well.  I will be adding them to my photo album, but they have a great collection of 16th Wisconsin Infantry photos (Jim did you know about this?!?!?!??!!?!?!?)  Most of the images are from Company E, 16th Wisconsin.  That company really took a beating at Shiloh, amazing to have so many images from that one company.  But, again, will be posting those images soon.

    Neat website, would be nice to visit the museum itself.  Check out the picture of the museum, I love how they incorporated the mannequins and the mural together.  I have yet to surf the rest of the sight to see what else they have available online.

    Civil_War_600x400.jpg

    • Like 2

  16. Similar topic, but off topic.  The huge maps in the Shiloh visitor center, showing Day 1 and Day 2.  They have numerous errors on them.  The positioning of certain bridges across creeks, and even the mention of the "20th Ala", meaning the 20th Alabama Infantry, which was not even AT the Battle of Shiloh.  

    As far as maps, look at the map used in Ken Burns "Civil War", about Shiloh.  Not sure why so many omissions in it?

    shiloh-map-lg.jpg

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