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Joseph Rose

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Joseph Rose last won the day on December 22 2016

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About Joseph Rose

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    New York, N.Y.
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    American Civil War, Ulysses S. Grant, cartography, historiography

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  1. Joseph Rose

    Grant’s 9:30 a.m. arrival at Pittsburg Landing

    This is not the usual view, but there is some evidence that Grant and Sherman didn't meet until somewhat after the standard 10:00 a.m. scenario (and both pieces of these pieces of evidence were provided by Sherman). Sherman in the NY Tribune 6/8/75 stated that he saw Grant at 10:30 and 4:30. In PUSG 31:268 dated 2/5/85, Sherman wrote Grant that, "My hardest fighting was with McClernand on his Right where you first found me right in his Camps." That sounds as if it was after the Purdy Line fell apart around 10 a.m. Maybe the time was a little later than generally thought.
  2. Joseph Rose

    Grant’s 9:30 a.m. arrival at Pittsburg Landing

    I also agree that 25-30 minutes after landing seems reasonable. Grant assuredly had been there before, and he would want to check with Sherman early on as the de facto commander at the campsite. But I also feel that Grant probably gave his orders for Lew Wallace after meeting Sherman. Sending them earlier and closer to the landing would give Baxter too much time to arrive at Lew Wallace's Stoney Lonesome location at 11:30. From Shiloh church at 10 am to the same location would take longer (although an hour and a half still seems long for that trip). As most individuals agreed that Lew Wallace was to go to Sherman's right, it would make sense that Grant actually went to the right and met with Sherman before promulgating such orders.
  3. Joseph Rose

    Grant’s 9:30 a.m. arrival at Pittsburg Landing

    Ozzy, That's a good summary. I've attached a copy of the pertinent page from the logbook. The naval officers might have been 5-10 minutes off, but I'd be surprised if it was much more than that. From my notes: Knefler, General Fred. (to Wallace in response to Badeau's "Life of Grant," ) 2/19/68 from Carrington - Major General Lew Wallace at Shiloh: About 9 o’clock General Grant passed up on the Tigris and in passing the boat upon which were your Headquarters, had a conversation with you. McGinnis, Brigadier General George F (a regt cmdr at Crumps on 4/6/62) from MOLLUS Indiana 1 Shiloh, with Map Grant at Crumps about 8:30 I think that Sherman might have been the first stop on Grant's itinerary after arrival, from what I know of him. That could still work with a 9:30 arrival. Thanks, Joe TN - Shiloh NMP, USS Tyler logbook Apr 6 midnight - 4 pm.pdf
  4. It turns out that I have too kind to General Grant in my book, concerning at least one area. The time of his arrival at Pittsburg Landing—after hearing cannon-fire at his headquarters ten miles downriver in Savannah and boarding his flagship Tigress for the trip upriver—has been a subject of controversy. Grant and many of his friends and supporters selected earlier-than-actual times (with those of J.F.C. Fuller and William Rowley being absurdly early), which would minimize Grant’s blunder of being away from the army when the battle began about 5 a.m. See the list below. Both Grant and William Carroll had initially asserted later times but later revised them in Grant’s favor. Myself and several historians, on the other hand, determined that around 9 a.m was a much more realistic estimate. But the logbook for the woodenclad gunboat USS Tyler, which Chief Ranger Stacey Allen commendably acquired, shows almost conclusively that Grant arrived even later than that. The beginning of the logbook’s relevant entry states: Pittsburgh April 6th. 62 From 8 to 12 Clear + Warm heavy firing heard back of Pittsburgh. John Warner started down at 9. o’clk. Tigress Came up at 9.30 Evansville at 9.45 We got underway at 9.55 . . .” This is rather conclusive evidence that Grant arrived around 9:30. Further confirmation comes from John Warner starting down from the landing at 9. This would indicate that she traveled some ten minutes downriver before meeting Tigress, which then took some twenty minutes to reach Pittsburg. Now, it’s possible that these times may be somewhat wrong, but naval timekeeping probably far exceeded the army’s for accuracy, and the USS Tyler logbook times are relatively congruent with those provided by the USS Lexington log. This later time suggests that the artillery had been firing for an hour or so before Grant boarded Tigress. It also increases the likelihood that Grant went to Sherman first, before stopping by Hurlbut’s side of the field. I had previously determined that the logbook for USS Lexington stated that the steamer John Raine (which the ORs incorrectly transcribed as John Ramm) passed Crumps Landing at 9 o’clock on the morning of April 6th. I had hypothesized that they had possibly meant John Warner. The Tyler’s log, however, indicates that there were two boats descending the Tennessee with news of the battle’s beginning. The somewhat unreliable recollection of Captain Marsh that Tigress met John Warner between Savannah and Crumps Landing (almost impossible, according to the Tyler’s log), therefore, might have been a reference to John Raine instead. The sampling below of Grant’s supposed arrival times from himself and various supporters is somewhat indicative of their reliability: Friendly reporters William C. Carroll: 8:30 “Casco”: soon after 8:00 Staff and other officers William Rowley: about 7:30 Douglas Putnam, Jr.: near 8:00 John A. Rawlins: around 8:00 John A. Logan: by 8:00 William S. Hillyer: about 8:30 J.D. Webster: about 8:30 W.F. Brinck ordnance officer: between 7:30 and 8:30 Authors J.F.C. Fuller in Grant & Lee, a Study in Personality and Generalship: 6:00 William Belknap, et al. in History of the Fifteenth Regiment, Iowa Veteran Volunteer Infantry: about 8:00 Ulysses S. Grant in his Personal Memoirs: “On reaching the front” about 8:00 (The description is of Pittsburg Landing, but his use of the word “front” is wrong.) John Emerson in “Grant’s Life in the West”: at 8:00 James Harrison Wilson and Charles A. Dana in The life of Ulysses S. Grant, general of the armies of the United States: at 8:00 Timothy Smith in Shiloh: Conquer or Perish: 8:15-8:30, but possibly as late as 9:00 There’s always something new to learn about the American Civil War.
  5. Joseph Rose

    The Crossroads

    I think that the previous posters have correctly explained the federal failure to hold the Hamburg-Purdy Road position: the disorganization of Sherman's men in their retreat from the first line; the dissolution and rout of Hildebrand's brigade (with the fleeing men disorganizing Buckland's regiments); the movement of Behr's five guns down the road (further disorganizing Buckland's regiments); Sherman's ill-fated decision to have Behr unlimber near the crossroads; the lack of defensible terrain; the appearance of Confederate skirmishers on Buckland's heels; the flanking presence of Pond's Confederate brigade; and the withdrawal of McDowell's brigade.
  6. Joseph Rose

    The 6th Division

    Perry, I never noticed that killed "while leading a charge against the enemy guns" comment. Had any Confederate artillery made it to Peabody's front at that early hour? Joe
  7. Joseph Rose

    The 6th Division

    Perry, You're quite correct that Prentiss deserves discredit for omitting Peabody from his report. As the local Grant critic, however, I think it's incumbent to recognize that Grant didn't mention Peabody either. That probably matters less in his short, substandard official report, but there is no reason for Grant to have ignored Peabody's actions (which probably saved Grant and his army) in his Personal Memoirs. I also wonder about the revisionism that seemingly tries to remove much of the commendation earned by the defenders of the Hornets' Nest. Yes, much of the Confederate army concentrated against Sherman and McClernand but, after they retreated, almost the entire enemy force was used to surround the Hornets' Nest. If Prentiss and Wallace had retreated earlier, who knows what might have happened if the Confederates could have focused their energies on Grant's last line. I think that there is also a question as to whether Hurlbut's two brigades should be considered part of the Hornets' Nest position. He did great work that day, and the typical pro-Grant and pro-Sherman accounts usually minimize his achievements or worse. Joe
  8. Joseph Rose

    Friends march to Corinth

    That's a very good summary. One of Henry Halleck's faults was his prejudice in favor of fellow West Pointers. Consequently, he had little but disdain for officers such as Lew Wallace and John McClernand, no matter how competent. When Halleck concentrated the three armies after Shiloh, he had to make a decision on the commands. He stuck both Wallace and McClernand in the reserve. Grant was in disfavor after the surprise and lack of preparation at Shiloh, so Halleck made him second-in-command. With Buell and Pope in command of two of the three wings, Halleck had to push a major-generalcy for Thomas, so he could take command of the third wing.
  9. Joseph Rose

    Grant Marsh, Steamboat Captain

    That's a tough one to answer. Is there any other evidence that bears on this episode?
  10. Joseph Rose

    The 6th Division

    Ron, My opinion of Prentiss is decidedly mixed. No matter how few men he commanded in the Hornets' Nest, his stand there deserves commendation. As he was ordered by Grant around 4:00 pm to remain there, he cannot be faulted with being captured. His earlier actions in the battle, however, were not all good, and his telling the enemy certain facts after being captured smacks to me of treason (unless one believes that he was trying to mislead the enemy). Joe
  11. Joseph Rose

    The 6th Division

    What do people here think of "Battle of Shiloh: Shattering Myths" from America's Civil War Magazine? Timothy B. Smith's second example is "Myth: Benjamin Prentiss was the hero of Shiloh."
  12. Joseph Rose

    The 6th Division

    Perry, in case you didn't provide us with enough reading material . . . In honor of Colonel Everett Peabody, here is the Newberry Library transcription of a letter by Oliver Perry Newberry, concerning Peabody: Oliver Perry to Cornelia Perry Newberry (mother), Pittsburg, TN, Apr. 13, 1862http://publications.newberry.org/civilwarletters/scripto/transcribe/924/2287 [by the way, I think that people can volunteer to transcribe the few remaining letters on their site which are as yet untranscribed (but maybe there are more hiding out). They have some twenty Civil War collections of letters available online, but don't seem to have a good search feature.] [Page 1] In Camp at Pittsburg, Tenn. On the battle ground, April 13th 1862, Dear Mother, Your welcome letters came to hand yesterday evening and I hasten to answer them. The grand battle has been fought and our noble Col. Peabody killed. Capt. Wade, Lt. Penfield, Lt. Bramble & Major Powell are killed. Lt. Klingler, Lt. Shurtliffe, Capt. Nichols, Capt. Hoge, Lt. Norris, Capt. Donnelly, and myself wounded. My wound is in the knee but slight. I never left the field but was furnished a horse. For forty hours I was in the centre of a most terrific fire. I may say that I have come out with honor and ere many days pass you will see my name honorably mentioned. Our loss was terrible and out of my company I lost nine killed and eleven wounded. We had the honor of opening the battle and nobly we stood the shock of the vast battle line of the enemy. This continent has never been the scene of such a battle as this and the survivors may well be proud of the scars they wear. For myself I can say that I have seen death in every form but take all I ever saw together does not compare with the hour of this carnage of blood and death. For six miles around bodies [vertical text begins] Perhaps some of those who have delighted to run me down and throw youthful follies in my face will sometime be glad own that they are acquainted with me. [vertical text ends] [Page 2] both friend and foe lie together. On Monday night and Tuesday thousands of our army were engaged in burying the dead and we are finding them every day. You will of course see the report of the battle in the papers. The enemy fought with a desperation worthy of a better cause but superior drill and discipline soon told fearfully on their ranks. Their officers could plainly be heard exhorting their men to stand firm. We suffered fearfully on Sunday but on Monday the loss was not so much. Col. Peabody was shot through the head on Sunday morning while leading a charge on the enemys guns. A braver or more noble man never lived. In him I lost a true friend and had he lived I should have risen rapidly in rank. The Lt. Colonel who has taken his place is a brave man and has forwarded my name to Head Quarters for promotion. He is a man of influence and will secure me a position on the staff of some one of the Generals if possible. Three times in his presence did I rally my men and pour a deadly fire into enemys ranks and was publicly thanked while on the field by Gen Mc Cook & staff. How my heart beat at the words and how much I would have given could my father have lived to have heard them. I the wild reckless boy may wear laurels yet. Why not. My lane has [Page 3] turned I believe. Lt. Singleton 2nd Lt. of my company behaved nobly. All of my men but one done their duty. That one was an arrant coward and will be drummed out of the regiment. He ran away and threw away his gun as he went. But such cases were few. Some officers who done their duty simply will not be mentioned while others who done more than the regulations or customs of war demanded will at once receive their meed of praise and promotion. For coolness, calmness, and moral courage are requisite and must be combined in the man who would lead men to battle. Our Generals are finding this out and are determined to promote none who have not been tried. I do wish that Walter had come out west for I am sure that he would rapidly rise in rank for he is brave and fearless and is one of the coolest men I ever saw. If I am promoted to what I want to be you may look for me to see you for I shall be obliged to visit Washington on business connected with the regiment. Our Major an old regular Army officer was killed in retaking a battery of artillery but as he turned to give the Lt. Col. the news of his success was shot through the body and lived only a few hours. His little son is with us and is the idol of the regiment. I have lost most of my clothes except my uniform. I happened to have on the same [Page 4] casimer shirt that I wore through the battle of Lexington and wore it through this battle. A coincidence certainly. I have some trophies of the field among which is a revolver, a lance etc. Some small things that if I live that I want to give my children. I had forgotten to say that we went into battle with 825 men of our regiment and came out with only 441, officers not included. About that daughter I have never seen her but Lizzie writes me that she is pretty. She has asked me to name it but I had written her to name it what she pleased. The name you have selected is a very pretty one all but that Perry however I am more than satisfied. If Providence spares my life my children shall be well reared and cared for. Educations I can give them any way and they shall have it. Lizzie makes a good mother and she will see that the girls are smart and I will take care of Walt. He is my pet. Mother I am tiring you already and I will close this meaningless scrawl. I have plenty of work to do to-morrow for I am acting Brigade Quarter Master and have to draw provisions for some 3000 men and feed for 400 mules and horses. You see that they confidence in me. However I shall be relieved in a few days. Give my respects to Mr. & Mrs. Webster and all who enquire. Write me often. The sesesh can't kill me so do not worry. As ever, Perry
  13. Joseph Rose

    Grant Marsh, Steamboat Captain

    If you find evidence of where the staff was and who ordered Reid, please let me know. I always hear, in general, that all of Grant's staff stayed in Savannah with him. I'm quite sure that Rowley and Rawlins did. That leaves quite a few others, however, unaccounted for.
  14. Joseph Rose

    Grant Marsh, Steamboat Captain

    McPherson is the only Grant staffer I know of who was on the battlefield prior to Tigress' arrival, and maybe he gave the ~8:30 orders. I would agree that Grant arrived around 9:00.
  15. Joseph Rose

    Foote and Grant want to seize Fort Henry

    I would note that Grant came to detest Halleck after the war, when Halleck's 1862 communications criticizing Grant were found. During the war, and especially early in the war, Grant thought that Halleck was a great general, although realizing that there was a bump in the relationship every now and then. My take on it is that this meeting didn't happen or that Grant mischaracterized what happened during it. As someone noted above, Halleck agreed to the plan soon afterward.