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Everything posted by Eric72983

  1. what book or article is attacking prentiss I thought corrections made was just to share credit not demean prentiss????
  2. Although the question wasn't put to me.. i'm gonna put in two cents lol... I think your over thinking the passage. I would have read it as Anderson and Russell's Brigades and Cleburne's survivors re-entered the fray.. Bostered by the added strength of Smith's 154th Sr. Tenn. Reg. and Blythe's Miss. Reg. newly added for the renewed attack, only the first 3 units actually re-entered.. seems the author just wrote it as he did, to stay with the flow of his writing style..
  3. After reading the OR's I noticed the fight between Pillow and Polk... Which I took as Gen. Pillows bitterness about not being promoted or at least not retaining command of the Columbus area of the line... Is there any books about this topic??? Eric
  4. Eric72983


    Hank: Is there anything written about how or why the confederates organized their army at Corinth in the way that they did... I recall that corps weren't even in use yet.. or authorized.. I'm just wondering why they choose to build such large brigades and divide up their army as they did.. If there is anything that you know of that covers this.. thanks Eric
  5. Eric72983


    That is some list... no matter how many bookshelves we all might have crammed with books on the battle and the war... Its nice to see others read as much from the internet as well...
  6. Eric72983

    Hello All

    Ron I think General Meade would have something to say about Grant being at "every" union victory.. lol although I do know you said almost every victory.. The Grant, Meade relationship is a good story too... If Grant was never General and Chief of the Army or President.. and all he did to his name was his service in the civil war... He would be on anyone's top 5 list of Army Field Commanders.... His ability to recoup and react to any situation was a fast growing legend even at the time.. Grant, Patton, Rommel. etc you could go on and Grant would always make the list.... Now for the Battles: Belmont... was a complete defeat for Grant, as it did not truly effect the Columbus position or the forward camp.. other than to maybe warn Polk that Pillow couldn't be entrusted with a solo command even at how limited the Belmont affair was... Yet it didn't even show Polk that... Fort Henry... Fell to the Gunboat Fleet, not to Grant... Only because of poor placement and flooding... But was a complete Victory because it opened up that river... However it could have been a hollow victory, had Johnston, taken notice that Brig. Gen. Tilghman wouldn't have chosen to hold out and be taken prisoner had this just been a small push in this sector, but was a major enemy move.. which Johnston did not take notice (completely) at least... Fort Heiman.. Victory,the fort was taken by Grants other men... Point to Grant... Fort Donelson: OMG don't even get me started with this affair of events... lol... However Complete and Solid Victory for Grant.. All of the forts gained Grant Cannon, supplies, munitions and prisoners.. but not on this scale... Only the Pillow, Floyd Combo, could pull defeat out of the jaws of VICTORY.. yes all caps.. If you make a line of defenses, you man them so they just wont be pushed aside, than you take your reserves and mass them wherever the enemy chose to go... Johnston sent Donelson men from both Columbus and Bowling Green.. Not to mention the about 5000 men that were at Donelson already from all 3 forts.. bringing the total at Donelson to somewhere in the neighborhood of 17,000 men.. and does Johnston place in command one of his 3 sr. generals.. NO... Brig Gen. Floyd is left with the largest group of Johnstons army.... Of Course we all know what happened... and we all have read so many books on all the aspects of this campaign... Had Johnston used the defensive line he set up.. and only manned it with enough men to just hold it and nothing more.. He could have massed the remainder of his men on wherever the Union chose to attack in force, which we know was Fort Donelson and he knew too as he sent so many men there... Fort Donelson or in and around that sector would have been the great battle and not Shiloh. Win or lose it would have held off the federals, checked them until they refit and regained themselves.. and if they lost they would of been pushed back... Johnston would have fought with just as many men as he did at Shiloh, and wouldn't have striped New Orleans of men, helping to the downfall of that city... The battle wouldn't have been to hold back the Union and protect the last rail hub in the northern part of the department.. The battle would have been to preserve Tenn.. keep Nashville and millions of war materials.. That is all, a what if tho.. My points are, at this point in the war Gen. Grant isn't great yet, he's not even good... He almost lost his army twice because he wasn't even with it... At Vicksburg he was great and around Richmond... This wasn't a massive chess game like Grant played against Pemberton and than again against Lee... The whole union cause was advanced upon the mistakes Pillow made, Critteden, and Floyd.. Johnston is always left holding the bag tho because he didn't take a firm hold of the rains and allowed lesser men to move around the chest pieces.. to the loss of the South... My Next Posts will be about a new topic...
  7. Eric Campbell Scott Hartwig Troy Harman they were the 3 best down there when I was living there....
  8. I was just thinking about creating a thread about the Garrison left behind at Corinth during the Battle of Shiloh... and I see this.. lol Nice info.. where did you dig up and find this info??? I love Links... I was thinking and maybe some people have some views on it.... Of course leaving the able regiments at Corinth to serve as garrison... would it have been practical for Johnston to bring the un-armed men with him to Shiloh say under the command of someone like a provost marshal to organize it, to collect the supplies, ammo, rifles, wagons, cannons.. whatever of use from the federal camps and take them back to Corinth during the fighting at Shiloh... Was this sort of rear area operation ever considered or thought of.. and would it have even been worth doing???? Eric
  9. I've watched the video's of Tim Smiths Hiking tour maybe a dozen times... so I think I have a good feel for how he views the battle.... so I think i would like to delve into his books.. come October im going to have to get the Henry Donelson book.. ill pre-order..... The Rangers at Gettysburg that come to my mind are: Scott Hartwig Troy Harman Scott Adrian Bill Hewitt Angie Atkinson Matt Atkinson The first two guys were there when I was just going to school.. and helping out with tours there volunteering as a student about 15 yrs ago... I was going to be a ranger myself.. but went another way with school... but the list above are the people I remember the most throughout the yrs at Gettysburg, their are others too, but I don't remember their names... and I always favored Troy Harman... and his lectures and the Papers that go with them.. he has a good one on Meade.... I know the Gettysburg NPS has more rangers and funds than Shiloh... but I'd like to get down there and here some of their Rangers views on the battle and the war as a whole...
  10. I came to the troop numbers I posted from:

    The Shiloh Campaign. by Martin

    The OR and Battles and Leaders

    I took the starting numbers from around the time of Belmont and mill springs and PGT and Floyds Brigade from VA.... and what was at the forts... than I took the regiments and brigades that went to reinforce donelson.. and adjusted the numbers.. Finally after the fall of Donelson you have something like 12-14 thousand prisoners but only 7000 being reported to have been transported away.. so taking Braggs numbers he brought from FL,AL, LA, I subtracted it from the total at Shiloh.. and got Johnstons original numbers... I took that number and subtracted each Individual location Columbus, bowling green, Cumberland gap.. and the difference was what i assume actually escaped donelson..


    If you have any links you can share about OOB or any troop numbers I'd love to see them... 

    Thanks have a good day...


  11. To Paul... thanks for taking the time to post the info and map.. i just found one online and saved the pdf.. only 2 hrs away... Im about that close to Gettysburg.. maybe add another hour or so maybe for 4hrs total for sharpsburg.. maybe even harpers ferry.. Tim Smith was a ranger? wasn't he.. I remember his name... awhile back tho maybe... yrs ago there use to be a list of all the civil war park rangers... I Looked online he has like 5 books.. I think ill be dipping into the wallet soon.. lol... What are the dates for the Fort Donelson Hiking trip.. and where the meet up..
  12. Eric72983

    Hello All

    To Ron..... very nice post... and all true... James Chalmers went into the Cavalry didn't he??? Oh and Preston Smith had his moments too.. I knew why Shiloh was fought.. lol... I had just poorly stated my point... Which was... Why it had to come to Shiloh, why Nashville and so much was already lost... Grant almost lost at Shiloh.. He almost lost at Donelson... He Lost at Belmont.. Grant wasn't great, (YET).. that came later... the union advanced only on the braveness of their men.. and the mistakes on the other side.. not by General Ship.. Johnston is only to blame as much as he trusted in lesser men to follow thru with his plans...
  13. I was just going with the idea that Johnston was able to reinforce Donelson from two different points Columbus and Bowling Green.. I figure if he had a Army of Maneuver instead of just dispersing his men as he did... he could have held Grant at Donelson.. with say 5000 men or more or less.. depending what the min needed just to hold out a bit.. at a siege... in a smaller perimeter tho... and while Grant was facing Donelson.. Johnston could have brought his Army of Maneuver and attack him in rear... just a thought... When you don't have enough men for the offensive.. you would hold a line.. with only enough men so they dont get pushed right out of the fortifications.. then when u determine where the enemy is concentrating.. You pile all u got on them... my troop counts I explained on my other post... they are technically lower as I'm not counting, smaller garrisons of 200 men here... 100 men there... and smaller cav.. patrols.. he had more men... he was never going to have the men to attack the north.. but to hold them.. and then hit in response he could have done better... Thanks for the input... would love more input from others..... thanks everyone who posted tho
  14. Eric72983

    Hello All

    Grants escape routes were never cut tho... Even if by some chance, lets say Buell was late a week and Grants army was wiped out, that wouldn't allow the Rebels free rain... Buells army and Popes army were still close by and the confederates would have been spent by that time.. too weakened and tired to take advantage of it... I don't know of any army in the civil war wiped out to the last man.. I wouldn't want your prolly great grand father or great great grandfather to die.. cause well we wouldn't be able to talk on this subject would we.. lol.. nashville was already lost.. with tons and tons of supplies destroyed.... Shiloh was to stop the bleeding and try to check the federal advance.... Europe, save for Spain.. all opposed slavery.. so being recognized as an Independent State.. was going to take alot... The 16th WI... we could do a whole thread on WI in the civil war... the Iron Brigade on day 1 at Gettysburg was very good.. the 2nd 6th and 7th.. I believe... WI fought well throughout the war..... my OOB numbers from my other posts are my own.. taken from.. The Shiloh Campaign by Martin.. The Civil War.. by Foote And the OR and Battles and Leaders.... for Shiloh, Corinth, Belmont, Donelson... Etc.. I took all the troop movements.. like troops to donelson from bowling green... troops to donelson from Columbus... troops from Columbus to Island Number 10... troops from the Cumberland gap to Corinth... I like the OOB's as much as reading about the battle themselves... have a good day jim.. thanks for the input
  15. It would seem you state my topic here.. and make my points better than I do myself.. lol The points you made are exactly what I don't understand... AS Johnston was a good officer, maybe the best at the time, he was considered so by most other officers...His service to the US Army was fine... His time in Texas.. All in all he seemed like what all 2nd Lt's. would want to make of their career in the army... A role Model... From Corinth till his fall at Shiloh.. he was brave and smart.. and tactful... However the time from taking his position in the west, until the gathering together of all forces at Corinth.. He didn't seem himself.. its that time span, that just has me wondering what was going on... The reinforcing of Fort Donelson was PGT Beauregard's idea that Johnston just agree'd to.. Allowing command and control problems between his many areas of operations... Just his none Albert Sidney Johnston like airs... I just feel in that little time span something feels off about him... Like maybe just the shock of how Jefferson Davis would leave him in such a horrible spot and not care enough about the west... Johnston wanted AP Stewart to command at Donelson.. but Jeff Davis owed Floyd Favors.. sooo.. there you have it... Johnston just didn't feel like himself in that time span to me.. and I just wonder why...
  16. 09-10-1861 AS Johnston takes Command of Dep. #2 11-07-1861 Battle of Belmont 01-19-1862 Battle of Mill Springs 02-06-1862 Battle of Fort Henry 02-15-1862 Battle of Fort Donelson 02-23-1862 Evacuation of Nashville 03-02-1862 Evacuation of Columbus 04-06-1862 Battle of Shiloh 04-07-1862 Battle of Island Number 10 04-29-1862 Siege of Corinth 05-01-1862 Capture of New Orleans 06-06-1862 Capture of Fort Pillow and Memphis He had only about 5 months before things turned... Department #2.. was way to big.. it prolly should have been 2 or 3 separate departments... I'm going to go heavy on the idea that he didn't have many jr. officers to depend on.. and the ones that turned out to be good officers were not yet tested and very jr... Johnston only had 3 Lts. General PGT Beauregard, and Major Generals Polk and Hardee.. and ranking in that order... others had Major General ranks dating before Shiloh.. but they must have been retro graded ranks.. at the time these 3 men were his main jr officers... I just think he could have managed the troops he did have 1000 times more properly.. with only taking into account the info he had on the ground at the time...
  17. I have been to many civil war battlefields but I have never been to Fort Donelson, can someone message me with info about this trip.. when it is.. how much.. local hotels.. just any info.. thanks in advance... and even if im to late for this trip.. ill end up making my own trip out there anyway.. so any info on the general area would help..... Also on the maps and road networks... I do love topography, its the nerd inside me I suppose... but knowing the area your in does help to understand the battle.... The markers and monuments are always aligned with the roads or trails tho... does anyone else find themselves either in the mind or in reality aligning themselves with the way the regiment or brigade was actually facing when reading the markers or looking out at the land.. lol... just a thought.... nice thread tho
  18. Eric72983

    Hello All

    In the west i'm more interested in the Vicksburg campaign... The battle of Shiloh however feels messy to me.. it reminds me very much of the wilderness back here in the East.. With that said tho.. you do have alot of future great commanders... bowen, hardee, cleburne, etc and grant, sherman, mcpherson, etc... I just made a post in the forum thread about the lead up to the battle itself, so to me whats most interesting about Shiloh is that it happened at all.... Nashville falls, soon Memphis.. the whole KY line is lost.. thousands of troops wasted or prisoners... for all real purposes all of Tennessee Lost.. and Shiloh is just brewing... the battle itself is interesting.... BUT I dont think in the history of the civil war so much was lost before the battle was even fought.... Nothing was ever going to be truly won at Shiloh.... Fort Donelson was the Souths moment in the west.. and there u have it.... hope you take a look at my post in the other tread...... What is it about this war, is battle that interests you... that draws your focus....
  19. Eric72983

    Hello All

    I don't really follow hockey that much.. but I sometimes watch old maple leaf games... and if their on tv I watch the New Jersey Devils.... I don't watch much tv.. so sports is limited mostly go online and check the highlights and scores... lol... Yeah your fellow member Tony's video's are good.. theres not may long tours online to watch soo I pretty much have watched all of his.. and gettysburg NPS youtube.. has hour long tour videos..
  20. Thanks for both responses.. Department #2 which is what AS Johnston had command of; was lets say: Ky the parts they occupied, Missouri the parts they still had a hold of, all of Tenn., Ark., and Miss.. and Northern Al... The coastal ares were held by Gen. Bragg.. and LA was held by Gen. Lovell and Gen. Ruggles... In Miss. we slowly have forces for around Vicksburg under Gen. ML Smith or Van Dorn... Holding Tenn. secures the rest.. I never thought too much about AS Johnstons travel from his union department of the pacific. to Richmond, then back to the west... (AS Johnston would be a good read alone)... Lets however take just the time period from when he was in command till just before the build up at Corinth.. prior to the Battle of Shiloh.... Most sources say it was lack of men, material, poor subordinates, the vastness of the department... I'm willing to concede all of that except for the lack of men... After the Reinforcement of Fort Donelson 5,900 men at Cumberland Gap 10,000 men in Missouri Under Price 15,000 men under Hardee at Bowling Green 7,000 men under PGT Beauregard and Polk at Columbus 5,350 men at island number 10 under McCown 16,900 men at Fort Donelson under Floyd 60,150 present.... more than was at the Battle of Shiloh After the fall of Forts Henry, Heiman and Donelson 5,900 men at Cumberland Gap 10,000 in Missouri Under Price 15,000 men under Hardee at bowling green 7,000 men under polk at columbus 5,350 men at island number 10 2,900 men escaped from donelson 46,150 present... More or Less equal to the forces at Shiloh At Corinth after to withdrawal from the KY def. line... 5,900 men from Cumberland Gap 15,000 men from Hardee at Bowling Green 7,000 men From Polk at Columbus 2,900 men escaped from Donelson 30,800 present still leaving forces at Island number 10 and Price not being in the field yet... The forces assembled by AS Johnston for the forthcoming battle of Shiloh 10,000 in Missouri Under Price not present arrived late 27,000 of Johnstons 17,000 men under Bragg 54,000 Total 44,000 present My view is that AS Johnston had more men when he decided to send more troops to Fort Donelson.. than he even had at the battle of Shilloh, even if you leave out Prices men.. he still has more.... It was his willingness to break apart his forces and scatter them to the winds.. had he even kept all his locations but manned them properly, leaving the remainder together as an Army of Maneuver.. to move toward whichever spot was finally attacked in strength... AS Johnston was acting like the department head he was... but never appointed a field commander or truly acted as one himself... I'm wondering what everyone's views are about how AS Johnstons Personality was prior to the fall of the KY line.. to how it was before the Battle of Shiloh... before Shiloh he never committed 100%.. but just before Shiloh he was committed... and I believe I just proved it wasn't manpower.. so what am I missing.... Thanks everyone, I'd love to here everyones opinion.. I would love tons of feedback on this topic.. thanks
  21. Operational View Not to get into Monday morning quarterbacking, and trying to stay in the mind set of the Confederate Generals at the time, I have a few thoughts... Having sizable forces at Island Number 10, Columbus, Forts Henry and Donelson, Bowling Green, and The Cumberland Gap: It seems to me that, AS Johnston had enough manpower. Not even considering Bragg and Ruggles, who would later bring up forces from FL, AL, LA... Knowing that the Union forces would always be larger, in general... Instead of leaving just forces of observation and general garrisons, AS Johnston broke apart what could have been a sizable Army of Maneuver... Which we now know lead to the fall of the forts and a general retreat and giving up Nashville... and perhaps the entire war.. AS Johnston must have understood the idea of defeat in detail... Understanding that there had been other issues that caused this and knowing the history now.. What is everyone's opinion on the mindset of AS Johnston that lead him to all of this, which ended at Shiloh.. Thanks everyone very interested in everyone's views
  22. Eric72983

    Hello All

    Hello, from PA. My names Eric, I read through quite a few of the threads and watched some Youtube video's, which I believe are of a few members here on battle field tours. I liked the feel and tone of the topics and discussions, so here I am... Hello everyone...
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