CSuniforms

Am writing a book right now on firearms at Shiloh. The basic question, "Did it make a difference,?" being armed with a rifle or smooth-bore musket. It made a lot of difference to the average recruit of 1861. They wanted rifles! and would be really angry if given a smooth-bore, especially on the Federal side. The poor Confederates in Johnston's Department No.2, from September of 1861 to April of 1862 were short of firearms. The majority of the firearms carried by the Confederates were smooth-bores and the majority of the firearms carried by the Federals were rifles. Now--------- Did it make a difference which one you had at Shiloh. Many say it did not because of the distances of combat and firing, much of it in dense forest and brush under 100 yards. That is the contention of these small arms writers, because of the distances fought-- rifles did not make a difference overall. Well, I have been researching battle accounts at Shiloh that at different times and circumstances it did make a difference. These I will share in my book. The idea of rifles shooting these big arcs is interesting, but more of theory than actual shooting. I have been a member of the N-SSA for 40 years and have shot every kind of Civil War firearm at a multitude of distances-- including targets at 300 yards. I have watched my fellow N-SSA shooters hit a target at that distance 4 times in a row. NOW these guys practice-- but I will tell you if they were shooting at a target, a cannon crew, or a line of infantry from 200 to 300 yards away-- their sighting would be to arc their rounds into a specific target-- like shooting a bow and arrow-- you arc your shot. If you missed, you would have missed an individual target, and yes your shot might hit the ground a number of yards behind that man or cannon-- true. But you were not looking for a volley fire effect. You had one target and one target only. Over 100 yards your chances of hitting a man with smooth-bore was down to 30% or less. I have tried it and that is a fact. The Confederate Army at Shiloh it appears did not have a disadvantage being armed with smooth-bores at Shiloh. They pushed the Federals back two miles or more, but did take a lot of casualties doing it. They were stopped at times by Federals armed with rifles, hidden behind trees and in ravines for hours. That is a fact.... So-- wait for my book and send me all those accounts where Soldiers at Shiloh were thankful they had Enfields or were mad because their smooth-bores did no damage. To far away!

Hello-- Just going through all these Shiloh posts-- on the uniform- It appears to be a Nashville or Memphis pattern Tennessee issued frock coat. The distinctive cuffs with three buttons stand out.. It was probably dark blue with red or black cuff and collar. The hat is interesting and is Militia. The ribbon in front could be part of a cockade, a Secession cockade. Medium blue color.

WOW! This from 2008! Heck Yes-- start doing your research! What Shiloh needs is research. Dig into those local libraries, Historical Societies, private and State collections. Look for first hand accounts. Letters, diaries, memoirs buried in some old box in the back of the museum. What folks do not know-- that not EVERYTHING-- is on the internet. There are still hundreds of letters, reports, papers on Shiloh no one has ever seen. HECK! I have one hanging on my wall in the Office. A quartermaster requisition signed by General Sherman for his whole Division! Doing research for a number of authors over the years-- many do not do their own research, especially academics. OF course some do-- but they do use students and aids to help out. So put on your walking shoes, get in the car and drive to your local historical society and ask if they have any Shiloh letters or stuff on Shiloh. Go to your local Round Table and ask if folks have memorabilia or letters from relatives on Shiloh. They do!!!!! Look in the old newspaper for soldiers letters-- they exist and often fascinating to read and historically sound as research. Gettysburg has their own magazine for petes sake. They fill it with articles that are based on sound research and it shows. Just do it and get back to us.... Tom

Yes--- Grant also said he never was able to see Buell's Official Report of the Battle for years and years. When he did read it--- he came out with that, "totally misunderstood," line that laid the foundation of the "What ifs," and all the rest of the story on Shiloh. Tim Smith is very good on the What ifs!

EXACTLY--- And the only question is, was this an omission of deceit or just plain memory loss. Either way, it makes it harder to study the Battle of Shiloh, especially if you were unawares that some sources are incorrect.

I am working on a Shiloh project and always go back to the original sources for guidance to start. I was reading in Battles and Leaders, General Buell's Shiloh Reviewed article written in 1884. He slammed Grant and Sherman for re-writing history, their maps, and anyone else who formed an opinion on what Buell called misleading anecdotes and folly. It was very interesting and explains a little more the confusion, the side ways opinions of both Officers and men who fought at Shiloh. One soldier made the statement that if you got two Shiloh Veterans together they could never agree on anything associated with that Battle, and they were there! Professor Tim Smith and other Historians of note tell of the mystique of Shiloh. I say it is a good story from start to finish with a lot of twists and turns. It was victory the Western Confederates needed. That the approach of General Sherman to Richmond-Petersburg in 1865, began in the West. A march that included Shiloh as a Union Victory. Has anyone else read an old book on Shiloh and sees the same, "what ifs"-- and "maybe's" we get all the Shiloh mystique from?

I had an interest in such a question on Grant years ago. I was researching US Grant and the Battle of Belmont, MO. fought on November 7th, 1861. I have not been able to get a definitive answer, but at one point, post WW 1, that the Staff at West Point tried to put together basically, a class or study on what makes a great and successful General. What traits are shared, what attributes, what brain power, what cognitive gift do they have and can it be taught to others. I do not think it went anywhere, but the attempt to try and understand US Grant as a Commander was done. What I saw in Grant was how he would listen to others. Get their views on a subject, attack, retreat, move and how to move-- then take a break, come back, and using all he heard give a succinct order that all had part in. Another was ability to write an order that was to the point and easy to understand. That he would rise at dawn, work all day, writing orders etc., then in the evening eat something and sit around the campfire and listen to jokes and bantering, he loved it. His War Secretary was asked what made Grant successful. His answer, "success?, we followed Grant because he was successful." He just did it---

14th Wisconsin Dresden Suhl Rifles-- class A weapons 15th Illinois-- a hodge podge-- Companies A, B, G, and E- Enfield Rifles-- the rest .69 cal smoothbores, Co. C of all things old British Tower Muskets 77th Ohio- Armed in the Field, Austrian-Belgian conversions .69 cal smoothbores... Prussian Muskets 70th Ohio- 264 Austrian rifles-- Belgian Conversion smoothbores-- then Regimental History says Enfields right before Shiloh.

The 11th Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment on Dec 2 1861 received Prussian muskets.[9] Flank Companies received Springfield model 1857 instead the Prussian muskets which the rest of the regiment had received.[10] The 11th Infantry received 800 smooth bore Prussian muskets and 200 French rifled muskets. The 12th Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment was issued part of the 4,000 Austrian rifled muskets that had recently arrived. The 13th Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment was issued arms from the same shipment as the 12th Regiment. Another report indicates that the first arms they received were Springfield rifles.[11] The 14th Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment originally received one hundred State owned smooth bore muskets. The 14th Infantry, Mulligan Regiment, Quinn Regiment and Stuart Regiment received Austrian rifles on January 29 1862. The 12th Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment, a.k.a. the Quinn Regiment was mustered into federal service on March 15 1862 in Niles Michigan. The first regimental commander was Colonel Francis Quinn of Niles. Their first issued uniforms were provided by the federal government, to include the boots and hats. This was part of a shipment of equipment sent to Captain Lee the US Army Quartermaster in Detroit from New York and Philadelphia. Captain received at that time 200 boxes of clothing, 3,000 suits in total, which had arrived for the 12th, 13th and 14 Infantry Regiments . One former member of Company D indicated that army blue uniforms were arriving in January of 1862. A photograph of the 12th Regiment at Camp Barker (Niles Michigan) taken before the regiment left Michigan shows enlisted men in short dark blouses, most wear dark trousers but some wear light trousers. All wear dark hats. Only one enlisted man wears a frock coat. The green and gray blankets purchased for this regiment were worthless and quickly replaced.

From the LOC-- unidentified member of the 12th Michigan, Co. A., with his Austrian musket... cal .54

I watched the Prentiss walk on You-Tube-- It was awesome, but there is an addition... At Fraley? Field and the first contact between the 3rd Miss Batt. and the 25th Missouri-- Professor Tim stated he believed the troops were armed with smoothbores... No they were not... Research shows the 25th MO. were issued Model 1842 rifles, .69 cal. firing big minies with long range rear sites and the Confederates some had rifles and even Sharps Rifles-- a very accurate and devastating weapon. The casualties were minimal-- not because of the use of smoothbores, but the darkness and distance between the contestants. At distances of 300 yards or more-- a soldier would have trouble sighting in and hitting a target-- especially when bullets are flying your way. The 16th Wisconsin were armed with the Class A Dresden Suhl Rifle, the 12th Michigan with .54 caliber Austrian rifles, and the 21st MO, Model 1842 rifled muskets, .69 caliber --all of them in Peabody's Brigade. The 23rd and 21st wore short jackets and bummers, the 18th Wisconsin in the State 5 button blouse and bummers some in black hats, and the 12th, I am still working on as to uniforms-- Tom

Interesting that the arguing continued long after the War--- Lost Cause and such... will post more stuff from the newspapers-- interesting, Tom Arliskas

ooops wrong post--- but a good read anyway!

Found this in a series of old newspapers. That Beauregard was the one who drew up the plan of Battle for Shiloh-- and some say it was Johnston-- Even in 1885 they had their own discussion group on Shiloh! Shiloh 1885.pdf