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HELLO FROM WISCONSIN-- SHILOH STUDY

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Research is continuing-- Found some good information on some of the different Louisiana Regiments. Will share in time, when I get it all together. Tom

 

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2 hours ago, CSuniforms said:

Research is continuing-- Found some good information on some of the different Louisiana Regiments. Will share in time, when I get it all together. Tom

 

Cool Tom, will look forward to seeing it.  It is a crying shame that Troiani only did one Shiloh print.  His work is amazing, but I guess the Western Theater was just not his thing.  Would love to see him doing a painting with his interpretation of the attack of Gladden's men in Spain Field.

I don't have the Troiani "Men of Arkansas" print, but would love to get it.

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Pvt. Jacob Bowman, Company D, 14th Illinois Infantry.  Some people would say this guy was a "Confederate", with the upside down US buckle and all.  

Pvt. Jacob Bowman, Company D, 14th Illinois Infantry.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Stan Hutson said:

Cool Tom, will look forward to seeing it.  It is a crying shame that Troiani only did one Shiloh print.  His work is amazing, but I guess the Western Theater was just not his thing.  Would love to see him doing a painting with his interpretation of the attack of Gladden's men in Spain Field.

I don't have the Troiani "Men of Arkansas" print, but would love to get it.

Research is continuing-- Found some good information on some of the different Louisiana Regiments. Will share in time, when I get it all together. Tom

 

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Awesome image! Where did you find that one! Of course the 14th by Shiloh were in blue jackets-- But a great image. Don did Shiloh, if I remember, because people at that time were asking for something Western. He had a hard time finding how Johnston was dressed at Shiloh-- after much research he came with this rendition. The Arkansas troops, their uniforms are based on research done by myself and Jerry Coats of Gettysburg. Jerry dug out the ordnance and clothing records in the National Archives. Using some photos and flag research we put it all together for this painting. Jerry said his Western stuff just did not sell as well as his Eastern Battlefield paintings and prints. Remember when it was all Gettysburg and Antietam 25 years ago!!! Not so much today, but that was the way it was back then. I will fill in the gaps. I did do the research for 10 Western figures for Don.-- Tom

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40 minutes ago, CSuniforms said:

Awesome image! Where did you find that one! Of course the 14th by Shiloh were in blue jackets-- But a great image. Don did Shiloh, if I remember, because people at that time were asking for something Western. He had a hard time finding how Johnston was dressed at Shiloh-- after much research he came with this rendition. The Arkansas troops, their uniforms are based on research done by myself and Jerry Coats of Gettysburg. Jerry dug out the ordnance and clothing records in the National Archives. Using some photos and flag research we put it all together for this painting. Jerry said his Western stuff just did not sell as well as his Eastern Battlefield paintings and prints. Remember when it was all Gettysburg and Antietam 25 years ago!!! Not so much today, but that was the way it was back then. I will fill in the gaps. I did do the research for 10 Western figures for Don.-- Tom

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47601591/jacob-bowman

Yeah I remember years ago when his prints were seemingly all Gburg and Antietam.  And I recall that he had a hard time finding good accounts of clothing and etc. for his Shiloh piece, and to his credit he wants his paintings to be authentic, not "what they might have looked like", nor a generic version of Western CS soldiers early war.  I doubt he will do any more Western theater, which is sad, but would love to see some.

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1 hour ago, Stan Hutson said:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47601591/jacob-bowman

Yeah I remember years ago when his prints were seemingly all Gburg and Antietam.  And I recall that he had a hard time finding good accounts of clothing and etc. for his Shiloh piece, and to his credit he wants his paintings to be authentic, not "what they might have looked like", nor a generic version of Western CS soldiers early war.  I doubt he will do any more Western theater, which is sad, but would love to see some.

Yes-- But that is then and this is now-- many years have passed since Don did Shiloh. We have much more in the way of research and new things are found all the time. I just pulled out my 14th Illinois notes and they received their new jackets in December of 1861. AND! the gray jackets-- seen in this picture-- were issued just shortly before that! Tom

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Thanks to Mona and Tom for relevant comments, and to Stan for comments and remarkable images...

Here are some comments provided by Shiloh participants (Union) who observed the previously-described anomalies:

  • Major Ezra Taylor, Sherman's Chief of Artillery -- "...the enemy appeared in large force in the open field directly in front of the position of [Waterhouse's] battery, bearing aloft, as I supposed, the American flag, and their men and officers wearing uniforms so similar to ours, that I hesitated to open fire on them. I afterwards learned that the uniform jackets worn by these troops were black" [OR 10 page 273].
  • Colonel Cyrus Hall, 14th Illinois -- "I saw a line of blue uniforms in front; fearing they were our men, I gave the order to cease firing" [OR 10 p.223].
  • In Papers of US Grant vol.5, page 31, General Grant reported "a [Rebel] brigade dressed in black and with a Union flag..."

Lack of proper uniform leads to confusion 

Ozzy

 

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10 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Thanks to Mona and Tom for relevant comments, and to Stan for comments and remarkable images...

Here are some comments provided by Shiloh participants (Union) who observed the previously-described anomalies:

  • Major Ezra Taylor, Sherman's Chief of Artillery -- "...the enemy appeared in large force in the open field directly in front of the position of [Waterhouse's] battery, bearing aloft, as I supposed, the American flag, and their men and officers wearing uniforms so similar to ours, that I hesitated to open fire on them. I afterwards learned that the uniform jackets worn by these troops were black" [OR 10 page 273].
  • Colonel Cyrus Hall, 14th Illinois -- "I saw a line of blue uniforms in front; fearing they were our men, I gave the order to cease firing" [OR 10 p.223].
  • In Papers of US Grant vol.5, page 31, General Grant reported "a [Rebel] brigade dressed in black and with a Union flag..."

Lack of proper uniform leads to confusion 

Ozzy

 

Those troops were Louisiana soldiers who from letters, received from their Governor, new dark blue uniforms. They were either in the Crescent Regiment or one of the other Louisiana Regiments-- I have the notes, but not handy right now. Also, The early Louisiana units in New Orleans adopted blue uniforms and red caps back in April-May 1861-- Did they have these outfits almost a year later-- maybe-- They were encamped in cities on the Coast which would have enabled them to take care of and store this clothing. The Great Appeal for clothing for the LA. volunteers over the winter of 61-62' was in full swing as well. So a combination of uniforms and donated clothing? I would say it happened-- so why not...  The Black uniforms-- a poorly dyed cloth will show up black in the shade... or look like black from a distance. Thanks Again-- Ozzy! As you can attest, this uniform stuff is not easy to find-- Maybe, that is why we dont have a set of comprehensive notes available for us... Tom

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image.png  [Louisiana Infantry reenactors with Pelican flag, found on Google Images.]

"At 7:30 o'clock Sunday morning I received a verbal message from General Prentiss that the enemy were in his front in force. Soon after my pickets sent in word that a force, with artillery, were advancing on the Bark Road. In a very short time I discovered the Pelican flag advancing in the rear of General Prentiss' headquarters" -- Colonel David Stuart, 55th Illinois Infantry, commanding 2nd Brigade of Sherman's Fifth Division.

Why was not just one distinctive Battle Flag in use by Rebel troops at Shiloh?

In Alfred Roman's Military Operations of General Beauregard, page 171: "On the 28th November 1861 General Beauregard distributed to his troops (Van Dorn's and Longstreet's divisions) the new Confederate Battle Flag. During the Battle of Manassas he had observed the difficulty of distinguishing our own from the enemy's colors..."

But, there was "a problem getting the flag designed by Colonel W.P. Miles adopted. In the meantime, General Joseph E. Johnston ordered troops to carry State Flags until the issue of Battle Flag was resolved" (page 171.)

At Shiloh, a number of Union soldiers witnessed Louisiana troops bearing the Pelican flag in their attack on the Federal position.

Ozzy

References:   http://archive.org/details/militaryoperati00romagoog  Roman's Military Ops of General Beauregard, pages 170 - 3 and 481 - 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPbKJJ9F5A  "Alone on the Left: the Desperate Stand of Stuart's Brigade at Shiloh (part one) with Ranger Chris Mekow" video by Tony Willoughby and published by YouTube 7 April 2015. (See time positions 24.40 and 42.10 for mention of Pelican flag use.)

OR 10 page 257 (Colonel Stuart's Shiloh report)

Google Images for Louisiana Infantry reenactors with Pelican flag.

 

 

  

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in basil duke's history of morgans calvary he writes that they rode upon a section of troops dressed in blue. and when a platoon was ordered to cautiously approach them they saw 'a little man flourishing a portentous saber and directing movements with off hand eloquence.they forbore fire as they did not understand what he said.from his volume,imprecatory sound of the language determined to be french.and from louisiana.this group of soldiers were members of Col Mouton's 18th LA.Their uniform cost them dearly before the fight was over."

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On 5/29/2018 at 7:21 PM, Ozzy said:

image.png  [Louisiana Infantry reenactors with Pelican flag, found on Google Images.]

"At 7:30 o'clock Sunday morning I received a verbal message from General Prentiss that the enemy were in his front in force. Soon after my pickets sent in word that a force, with artillery, were advancing on the Bark Road. In a very short time I discovered the Pelican flag advancing in the rear of General Prentiss' headquarters" -- Colonel David Stuart, 55th Illinois Infantry, commanding 2nd Brigade of Sherman's Fifth Division.

Why was not just one distinctive Battle Flag in use by Rebel troops at Shiloh?

In Alfred Roman's Military Operations of General Beauregard, page 171: "On the 28th November 1861 General Beauregard distributed to his troops (Van Dorn's and Longstreet's divisions) the new Confederate Battle Flag. During the Battle of Manassas he had observed the difficulty of distinguishing our own from the enemy's colors..."

But, there was "a problem getting the flag designed by Colonel W.P. Miles adopted. In the meantime, General Joseph E. Johnston ordered troops to carry State Flags until the issue of Battle Flag was resolved" (page 171.)

At Shiloh, a number of Union soldiers witnessed Louisiana troops bearing the Pelican flag in their attack on the Federal position.

Ozzy

References:   http://archive.org/details/militaryoperati00romagoog  Roman's Military Ops of General Beauregard, pages 170 - 3 and 481 - 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPbKJJ9F5A  "Alone on the Left: the Desperate Stand of Stuart's Brigade at Shiloh (part one) with Ranger Chris Mekow" video by Tony Willoughby and published by YouTube 7 April 2015. (See time positions 24.40 and 42.10 for mention of Pelican flag use.)

OR 10 page 257 (Colonel Stuart's Shiloh report)

Google Images for Louisiana Infantry reenactors with Pelican flag.

 

 

  

Yes, it is interesting that at Shiloh some soldiers recognized the pelican flag as being a Louisiana flag, yet other soldiers had never seen a Confederate flag.  As Leander Stillwell of the 61st Illinois stated,

I saw men in gray and brown clothes, with trailed muskets, running through the camp on our right, and I saw something else too, that sent a chill all through me.  It was a kind of flag I had never seen before.  It was a gaudy sort of thing, with red bars.  It flashed over me in a second that that thing was a Rebel flag.

 

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8th Texas Volunteer Cavalry Regiment Terry's 8th Texas.

[Above image from ACW Toy Soldiers http://www.acwtoysoldiers.com/Confederate Sets/CSA_CAV_TX_8thTTR.html ]

In OR 10 page 204, Brigadier General Hurlbut reports, "Willard's battery was thrown into position, under command of Lieutenant Wood, and opened with great effect upon the "Lone Star" flags..." This passage of interest because it would seem to indicate at least one Texas regiment fought under a flag resembling that displayed above, at far left. Will have to track down the reference, but have encountered at least one claim that the 9th Texas Infantry (assigned to Bragg's Corps) fought under a flag similar to that displayed above, center. The other flag possibly used by Texas at Shiloh is shown below:

 image.png  State of Texas flag (aka Lone Star Flag) found at wikipedia.

Will review my references and see if it is possible to find definite flag assignments for each of the Texas regiments at Shiloh.

Ozzy

 

 

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On 5/20/2018 at 8:48 AM, WI16thJim said:

The 14th, 16th, and 18th Wisconsin-- they won the Battle of Shiloh single-handed you know!!" Not only did the 16th win the battle, they won the war!

Jim

Aaron Rodgers must have been leading them all, naturally. ;)

-Paul

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